Saxophone Forum


by Chuck8133
(16 posts)
8 years ago

Conn bari sax

I currently have 5 conn baritone sax's, 1917 to 1931. On all of them I have to use a long MPC to get in tune while still getting enough cork under the MPC to support and seal it. Meyer MPC's are long and I get the sax in tune with them on the neck about 1+ inch. Link MPC's and others of the Link length are in tune when barely on the neck thus rocking around and probably leaking. Is this because bari MPC's were longer in the time frame these sax's were made? Is this a common problem on these older sax's? I have other bari's, (Selmer, Yani, Keilwerth, B&S), and the MPC's need to nearly use all the cork on them so the situation is unique to the Conn's. The oldest Selmer is a BA, 1935, a little newer than the newest Conn, (a 1931 Transitional), and the MPC needs nearly all the cork on it.

Reply To Post [Report Abuse]

Report Abuse

Replies

  1. by fdaasdf
    (1 post)

    4 years ago

    Re: Conn bari sax

    I did some investigation about this. The point is not the amount the mouthpiece fits onto the neck, as this is a function of the length of the mouthpiece shank. Rather, the important dimension is the distance from some reference point on the horn to the tip of the mouthpiece. I just measured the distance from the edge of the cork to the tip of the mouthpiece. What I found is that the (fairly small chamber) Vandoren mouthpiece was 10-15 mm greater distance from the reference point to the tip of the mouthpiece, when in tune, than a Meyer mouthpiece. Note again the length of the MP shank is not involved in this measurement. An old very large chamber mouthpiece had an even smaller distance from the reference point to the tip when tuned to the same pitch. What this tells me is the Conn horn and neck combination were designed for mouthpieces with larger chambers than many current MPs, and that pulling out a MP with too small a chamber and adding material to the MP or neck just addresses the symptom - the MP is not matched to the horn. Finally, when using a MP with larger chamber and thus shorter distance to the tip, altissimo response and tuning over all registers is dramatically improved, as are the "wonky" notes found here and there on the horn. Y You have to match the horn with the MP. It has nothing to do with the length of the MP and everything to do with the internal design of the MP.

    Reply To Post


    1. by kelsey
      (793 posts)

      4 years ago

      Re: Conn bari sax

      fdaasdf, this post is years old. The original people may have even died??? Try to stay current for our sake...........Kelsey
      Barry Kelsey

      Reply To Post AIM


  2. by landrusax
    (44 posts)

    8 years ago

    Re: Conn bari sax

    Hello, I talked with Emilio Lyons about this yesterday. He told me that a bunch of players he knew and knows used to put the mouthpiece on far enough to seat well on the neck and then compensate by pulling out the neck from the receiver a little bit. I have a '35 conn bari that this works well on. He told me that it is because the mouthpieces used to be longer. He also knew a couple of guys who got a piece of graduated copper tube soldered onto the end of the neck (cork side obviously) to increase the lenght by a 1/4 to 1/3 inch. I have only noticed this problem on my conns and have never heard about it on other baritones. I use a metal florida link that is on the horn about 3/4 of an inch, it seals but I have replaced the cork several times to make sure of this.

    Reply To Post


    1. by Sax Mom
      (964 posts)

      8 years ago

      Re: Conn bari sax

      I believe the Conn mouthpieces were also smaller in diameter where they attached to the cork (so they didn't rock when on about 1/2 inch) and had larger chambers (rather than being longer themselves). I cannot use a standard alto mouthpiece on my Conn 6M, unless I put tape around the cork to increase cork diameter. The Runyon that was with the horn when I bought it has a smaller diameter and works well. I recently bought a vintage Conn Steelay mouthpiece of Ebay, and it fits great.

      Reply To Post


    2. by Chuck8133
      (16 posts)

      8 years ago

      Re: Conn bari sax

      Thanks for the response. The older Conn bari's have the octave pip on the neck and the pad swings from the receiver on the gooseneck. No neck adjustment is possible on these older ones. It is good to know that I'm not alone in having this problem. I had thought of extending the neck as you have mentioned but have to find the right piece of copper to do it with. I think the Link you are using you bought from me. The Meyer MPC's do work pretty good because of their additional length. Thanks again.

      Reply To Post


      1. by landrusax
        (44 posts)

        8 years ago

        Re: Conn bari sax

        I did get that early babbit 7 from you a month ago, thank you. Its a very nice piece but I have still been using the older 9 that I'm used to. Let me know if you have any other floridas around. I have no idea where to get a copper piece to lenghten the neck. I might ask Karsten Gloger, and will let you know if he has something he can make. Please let me know if you ever find something also. On my 12m I can pull out the neck a little bit while still in contact with the mechanism, is the mechanism different on the tranisitional and wonder II? Thanks and take care.

        Reply To Post


        1. by Chuck8133
          (16 posts)

          8 years ago

          Re: Conn bari sax

          The Transitional is the same as the 12M, (that was the transition). The older Wonder models do not have the octave lever on the neck, only the octave pip is on the neck. The neck can only be on in one position so that the lever and pad will meet up with the pip.

          Reply To Post


        2. by Chuck8133
          (16 posts)

          8 years ago

          Re: Conn bari sax

          Update, I successfully added a piece of graduated brass tube to the neck on my 1928 bari. About 3/4 of an inch. Got the tubing from a junk French horn. Makes it much nicer when using the Link MPC's. Once re-corked can't see the added piece.

          Reply To Post


        3. by Sax Mom
          (964 posts)

          8 years ago

          Re: Conn bari sax

          Glad you were able to get it to work for you!!!

          Reply To Post


        4. by landrusax
          (44 posts)

          8 years ago

          Re: Conn bari sax

          Hey Chuck, I would love to buy one of those pieces to put on my neck if you have an extra one. It has been a pain in the ass to try on get this otto link to seat right on my neck. I have had the cork replaced a couple of times already. Please send your reply to landrusax@msn.com if you get a chance, thanks for your time. If you cant find an extra piece for me, could you please tell me from which part of the horn did you get it from? Thanks again Chuck, Take care, Brian

          Reply To Post


        5. by chiamac
          (586 posts)

          8 years ago

          Re: Conn bari sax

          IMO (as long as we are talking about old links... I think (and again, in my opinon) it would be easier to find some tube to fit on the end of the mouthpiece, then by some means to attach that tube to the end of ite piece. To me at least this would be more trusty than adding some pipe to the cork, then add the mpc. dunno, it's late and I'm tired... stupid baseball game keeping me up!

          Reply To Post Yahoo! AIM


        6. by johnsonfromwisconsin
          (767 posts)

          8 years ago

          Re: Conn bari sax

          -------------------------------------------------------------- dunno, it's late and I'm tired... stupid baseball game keeping me up! -------------------------------------------------------------- Happens to me too. I follow Minnesota, which is kind of depressing since they've been playing excellent ball of late and have gone nowhere in the standings because Detriot and Chicago are simply unstoppable.

          Reply To Post