Saxophone Forum


by Michael Collins
(13 posts)
18 years ago

Any Super 20 Fans Here?

I'm new here and was wondering if there were any King Super 20 players here. I have a 362xxx alto and I love it. Wouldn't trade it for anything. Most of the sax players I know play Selmers or Yamahas and it seems like nowadays it's hard to find people that play a Super 20.

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  1. by Donnie The B
    (282 posts)

    18 years ago

    Re: Any Super 20 Fans Here?

    Welcome. I'm sure you'l find lots of King guys here. They say the King Super 20 tenor is THE rock'n'roll horn. How would you describe the sound of the alto vs. Selmers you have heard, or etc? Incidently, I play a 1961 Selmer Mark VI tenor.

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    1. by blackfrancis
      (396 posts)

      18 years ago

      Re: Any Super 20 Fans Here?

      I'm a Super 20 guy- early '50s tenor. Does just about everything well (with the possible exclusion of legit, which I'm not really into). Kicks a** much better than my former SBA (but maybe about the same as my old 10M) and the intonation, range and ergos work just fine for me. Welcome!

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      1. by Mactenor
        (102 posts)

        18 years ago

        Re: Any Super 20 Fans Here?

        I have a 1965 Silversonic Tenor #411xxx (made in the Cleveland factory, not Eastlake). It has a huge sound, but the silver neck and bow make it sound on the bright side, even with a darker setup. It is a great horn otherwise, belt out a sustained low Bb and feel the windows rattle. Best Regards Mactenor

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        1. by definition
          (963 posts)

          18 years ago

          Re: Any Super 20 Fans Here?

          Super 20 player here too, Love my horn!!

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      2. by Michael Collins
        (13 posts)

        18 years ago

        Re: Any Super 20 Fans Here?

        Thanks for the welcome Donnie. I would say that compared to Selmers that I have heard, the Super 20 has a more powerful, robust sound. It's suited very well for jazz, rock, or rhythm and blues. Selmers are good for these forms as well and would definitely be better suited in a classical environment than a Super 20. I tried a couple of Selmers that belonged to friends of mine. One was a Mark VI and the other was a Super Balanced Action. Out of the two of them I would have to say I preferred the SBA to the VI (for some reason I seemed to get a better tone on the SBA). But neither of them were as comfortable to me as my Super 20, which I bought shortly after. For some reason it just feels right in my hands, I can't really explain why. But that's all that really matters, right?

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        1. by blackfrancis
          (396 posts)

          18 years ago

          Re: Any Super 20 Fans Here?

          Right!

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          1. by connsaxman_jim
            (2336 posts)

            18 years ago

            Saxophone Reviews

            I tested all of these tenors with the same mouthpiece and reed set-up; an early 60's Super Tone Master Florida and LaVoz medium reed. 1958 King Super 20. This horn just SCREAMS!!! Very bright, powerful sound with enough volume and projection to wake the dead! Like another person here said, the Super 20 is a great horn for jazz, rock, funk or blues. It seems to lack the low-end bark that my Conn 10M and Chu have. It has a raspy tone that is a little harder to tame than the Conn 10M or Buescher 400. The action is fairly light and smooth, and the intonation is very good. Like the Conn 10M and most vintage horns, the King Super 20 performs best with a large-chamber mouthpiece. 1948 Conn 10M This is my main sax; partly because it's like an old pair of shoes. I have been playing it since jr. high school, and it fits me well. The 10M is an easy, free-blowing horn with a big, powerful sound. The 10M is loud and bold, with great projection, and a great tone from the lowest lows to the highest hi's. It's a great horn for blues, jazz, funk, rock, or just about everything else. The 10M is my favorite, because depending on my set-up and technique, I can make the sax scream, or sound as smooth as silk. The action, although a bit clunky, is fast and precise. The intonation is somewhat touchy. 10M's need large-chamber mouthpieces and do not perform well with some of the newer small-chamber high-baffel mouthpieces. 1949 Buescher 400 Top Hat & Cane This sax has excellent intonation and like the Conn 10M, it's a very free-blowing, easy playing horn. The action feels a little stiffer than the Conn or the King, but the feel is very similar to the Conn. The Buescher is a sweet horn with a sweet and silky sound. The Buescher sounds like a slightly more civilized 10M. It can scream, snarl and growl too, but this sax really shines on blues and sexy ballads. 1954 Selmer Mark VI One of the earliest Mark VI's, this horn is a fantastic player. The intonation and the action are perfection. It has a light feel like the Super 20, only with better keywork. The sound is very well centered. This horn sounds great in a big band setting, playing Duke Ellington or Glenn Miller songs. It also sounds great on rock and pop. I recorded a collection of Latin music a while ago. A couple of the songs that we recorded were Girl From Impanema (Stan Getz) and Smooth Operator (Sa`de) and the Mark VI really shined. It has that classic Selmer sound. It's silky smooth and sexy. It's a great sound, but it's not the bold, "in your face" tone that makes you jump up out of your seat like the Conn 10M and King Super 20 have. 1929 Conn New Wonder Series II (Chu Berry) I thought I would mention a few things about this horn too just for comparison. This horn is silver plated, has the split bell keys, nail file G# and rolled tone holes. It's a very free-blowing easy playing horn; even easier than the 10M. The action is clunky and a bit cumbersome at times, but it's a 77 year old horn! If I were to compare it's sound to the Buescher 400 and the 10M, I would say I think it actually sounds more like the Buescher. It has a warmer, "lustier" tone than the 10M. The intonation isn't quite as good as the later 10M, but there again, for a 77 year old horn, it's good. No horn by itself is going to play in tune; it's up to the player to play it in tune! Jim

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          2. by Donnie The B
            (282 posts)

            18 years ago

            Re: Saxophone Reviews

            Jim- Just a note of appreciation for the work you put into loving music (and saxophones). This comparative sound posting has told me something I've long wondered, but never had the opportunity to find out. When I was in school, the guy that was 1st chair tenor (until I got there) was playing a Buescher. I thought it had somewhat of a buzzy quality to the tone and that it was somewhat weak compared to my Mark VI. The dude was precise though. My question- I always thought he was playing a really old horn - in my young mind - 1940's maybe, but from my description, could it have been an early 1960's Buescher - kind of past that brands' prime? (This was in 1965-66). Your description of the Buescher 400 makes me want to try one. I also love the sound of the older Conn models - I guess you feel the 10M is the one to have? I tried a Super 20 and yes it wails Jack! Unfortunately, I could not get it to speak sweetly enough for my needs during my brief trial. I can make my Mark VI growl and wail but sing sweetly as well. Course I've had ample time to learn the horn - 44 years now. One last question - what other mouthpieces should be tried on a Selmer Mark VI tenor. I played a Selmer C* Soloist exclusively for my 1st 20 years - never knew there could be a huge difference. Know I carry a more open piece as well. Thanks for your time, Jim. And good luck all.

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          3. by Roccosm
            (113 posts)

            18 years ago

            Re: Saxophone Reviews

            Hello, I have tryed 50 different tenor Mp, I really just started Playing more and more tenor, I play a M6 Alto primaraly and use a NY Meyer 6 M and had a year of frustration on Tenor, I have settled comfortably with a tuned Otto Link 7* STM , I have old Conn's and a 98 Borgani , the stock Otto's never have preformed like the Tuned Florida or any STM I have 3 Otto 7* Stm and everyone sound's different but very pleaseing.

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          4. by connsaxman_jim
            (2336 posts)

            18 years ago

            Re: Saxophone Reviews

            Donnie, the buzzy sound could have been due to a number of things; most likely the reed/mouthpiece combination that he was using, or a slight leak in one of the pads. It's really hard to say. The King Super 20 sounds great on screaming jazz, rock or funk, but it is very hard to tame. The Buescher 400 is a sweet horn with a great tone. I really like the earlier Aristocrats also. The mouthpiece that I like to use with my Mark VI is an older Dukoff Hollywood that is fairly open. I had a Berg 105/2 that sounds really nice on the Mark VI too. I would suggest trying something a little more open than the C*. You may want to try a metal piece, otherwise, I would suggest either the Jody Jazz or Beechler Hard Rubber pieces.

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          5. by Soldalma
            (1 post)

            17 years ago

            Re: Saxophone Reviews

            I own two King Super 20 altos and 3 Mark VI altos (98XXX silver plated, 110XXX and 140XXX relacquered). One of the 20's is of recent vintage, and is OK but not great. I am selling it. I previoulsy owned another 20 of recent vintage, ut sold it. It was similar to the one I own. The other 20 has serial number 376XXX and I consider it superior to all of my 3 Mark VIs (even though one of those is a superb instrument, the one with serial number 110XXX). The reason I prefer the 20 over the VIs is its sound. Some people like 20's because they "scream." Not me, it is not my style to "scream." I find the sound of the 20 when played gently absoulutely charming. There is more resonance, more openness. Compared to the 20 the VIs are slightly nasal. I think the sound of a sax is a matter of preference. Depending on what you are trying to accomplish one sax may be better than another. As teh French say, "chacun a son gout." I also like better the keywork of the 20. I can play faster with it, and I hate the octave key of the VIs, as it does not fit my hand. On the other hand, the low Bb and low B keys of the 20 are inferior to those of the VIs. The weakness of all 20s I tried is the bottom notes. The lower you go the more difficult it is to play those note cleanly. On the VIs those notes are "piece of cake." Even above that range, on the lower octave, in the first few days you will sometimes involuntarily play, for example a higher octave G, for example, when you are trying to play a lower G (without pressing the octave key). After a few days your embouchure adjusts and that problem goes away. On the other hand, the high D and above are easier on the 20, even on the cheaper ones of recent vintage. FWIW, These are my impressions on this limited sample, using mainly Meyer G and Vandoren V16 mouthpieces with Vandoren V16 reeds.

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