Saxophone Forum


by JBTSAX
(364 posts)
7 years ago

Vespro Saxophones

Has anyone tried the new Vespr

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  1. by STEVE GOODSON
    (291 posts)

    7 years ago

    Re: Vespro Saxophones

    there are numerous reviews on the saxnation forum. You can read them at www.saxnation.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=25&sid=bf10c0ae7e38bdfcb23606724c4e4aff It's ORPHEUS music, not orfice full information on our best selling Vespro line is available at www.orpheusmusic.com

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    1. by JBTSAX
      (364 posts)

      7 years ago

      Re: Vespro Saxophones

      Thanks for the spelling correction Steve. Say, can you tell me where the Vespros are manufactured? I can't seem to find that information anywhere in the links you provided. Thanks.

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      1. by STEVE GOODSON
        (291 posts)

        7 years ago

        Re: Vespro Saxophones

        We manufacture our Vespro saxophones from components that originate in seven different nations. We do this to assure our customers of the very best possible mix of materials and parts. Final assembly and adjustment is done at our facility in San Antonio, Texas. Before you ask, due to strict confidentiality agreements, we do not reveal any vendor information whatsoever. The above is all the information we are able to discuss, and is all that we will reveal. Vendor information is strictly proprietary.

        Reply To Post


        1. by connsaxman_jim
          (2336 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: Vespro Saxophones

          Mr. Goodson says: "We manufacture our Vespro saxophones from components that originate in seven different nations." Let me guess, China and Taiwan are two of them. "We do this to assure our customers of the very best possible mix of materials and parts." Yeah, probably made from the metal obtained from recalled Chinese toys. But don't worry people. I'm sure they remove all of the lead paint before melting them down! I hope....I think....probably not! " Final assembly and adjustment is done at our facility in San Antonio, Texas." Yeah, so immigrant farm workers have something to do when there aren't any more beans to pick! Honestly, I've never played a Vespro saxophone, so I can not speak for or against them personally, but I have yet to hear anything positive about them.

          Reply To Post Yahoo!


        2. by JBTSAX
          (364 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: Vespro Saxophones

          What do you mean by "final assembly"? Just how much of the Vespro is "assembled" in San Antonio?

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        3. by STEVE GOODSON
          (291 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: Vespro Saxophones

          All of the Vespro final assembly is done in San Antonio. We don't do any component work there. As to any further details of our manufacturing process, that is proprietary information, and I won't have any further comments. The proof is in the playing. Buy one and see or yourself. They're widely available.

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        4. by JBTSAX
          (364 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: Vespro Saxophones

          To me it seems highly suspicious when a manufacturer refuses to disclose where a saxophone is built ie. where the ribs, posts, keys, bell, are fitted and the pads are installed. The only logical reason behind this that I can see is that revealing the place of manufacture would devalue the sax in the mind of the buying public since it is apparently not where quality instruments have been produced in the past. In, fact I have never heard of a manufacturer of saxophones deliberately concealing where their instruments are made prior to the marketing of the current Vespro model. They may very well be good instruments as you claim, but the fact that there is something to hide about their source makes me a bit suspicious as a potential consumer.

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        5. by STEVE GOODSON
          (291 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: Vespro Saxophones

          There's nothing in any way suspicious about it, John. Business of every tpe maintain vendor confidentiality. Most of the manufacturers in the saxophone business certainly do, although there are exceptions. The fact that you have personally never heard of it really means nothing. It's simply the way business is generally done.

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        6. by JBTSAX
          (364 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: Vespro Saxophones

          I have, however, heard of the federal law that requires all imported merchandise be clearly labeled with the country of origin so that consumers know where the product was made. How does Orpheus Music Inc. get around this law that requires full disclosure of the point of manufacture? In my experience it is those individuals who feel the need to hide information who are the ones who have something to hide.

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        7. by eman19
          (131 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: Vespro Saxophones

          My bullshit-a-meter just hit max. You don't have to name the manufacturer, just the country of origin. Most products are labeled :MADE IN USA MADE IN CHINA MADE IN BANGLADESH etc. If you don't assemble them here, where are they assembled?

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        8. by MarkLavelle
          (300 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: Vespro Saxophones

          He already said they're assembled in TX, eman...

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        9. by JBTSAX
          (364 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: Vespro Saxophones

          "The final assembly is done in San Antonio, we don't do any of the component work there" says absolutely nothing. It is a misleading and ambiguous answer to a simple direct question. " Final assembly" could mean putting a plastic end plug in the sax prior to shipping. My B.S. meter also goes off the scale when people give deliberately evasive answers such as this to a simple legitimate question.

          Reply To Post


        10. by STEVE GOODSON
          (291 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: Vespro Saxophones

          There's nothing misleading at all, John. It's all in your mind. I'm sorry it upset your B.S. meter. Final assembly and adjustment means just that. I think you are alone in understanding this. Nobody else that we have had any dealings with seems to have an issue with this besides you, and we've sold a very large number of these horns. I also know you're not in any way a prospect for buying one of these horns since you work for Summerhays, who own the Cannonball line. What's your point? I think you're trying to create an issue out of nothing.

          Reply To Post


        11. by JZ
          (83 posts)

          7 years ago

          BS Meter = X X X X X X X X X * (9/10)

          Can't resist. At first I thought this was a contrived dialogue between jtbsax and Steve Goodson in order to "talk up" the Vespro line of saxophones. The sentence structure sounded like BS. However, after Steve's posting of the 28th, I reread the thread and saw the reference to "orifice" music. The best way to cut through BS is to call people on it. What's going on fellas? This sounds like the continuation of an argument from another web site (e.g., jtbsax’s hobby of “bugging dishonest and egotistical people”). I don't mind. I just want to hear the real story. Orifice Music? That could refer to any number of people.

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        12. by JBTSAX
          (364 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: Vespro Saxophones

          Yes,I am in fact one of 5 repair techs who work in the band and string repair shop at Summerhays Music in Orem, Utah. Summerhays is one of the many dealers throughout the world who carry the Cannonball line. Summerhays music certainly does not own Cannonball which is a separate company. Information about the Cannonball company can be found here:

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        13. by eman19
          (131 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: Vespro Saxophones

          Its an easy enough question is it not? I'd appreciate a link to pics to see what this thing looks like.

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        14. by eman19
          (131 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: Vespro Saxophones

          Apparently Vespro is not thought of too highly www.saxontheweb.net/vbulletin/archive/index.php/t-4009.html www.saxontheweb.net/vbulletin/archive/index.php/t-3101.html But here are some positive reviews as well - However, these are from a site run by Steve, so must be taken with a grain of salt. www.saxnation.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=25&sid=398edd0109b6a68828c3bf58018bb379

          Reply To Post


        15. by JBTSAX
          (364 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: Vespro Saxophones

          Actually a very small grain of salt since Jack Chirella, and Gayle Rogers are really S.G. himself posing as those people.

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        16. by JBTSAX
          (364 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: Vespro Saxophones

          I forgot to mention that Richard Fenno is an employee of Orpheus music, and that Tom Tapscott is a one of their dealers---both of whom have a financial interest recommending the Vespros.

          Reply To Post


        17. by JBTSAX
          (364 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: Vespro Saxophones

          Here is what Richard Fenno, Steve Goodson's cohort at Orpheus Music has to say about where the Vespro is made that can be found at this link:

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        18. by connsaxman_jim
          (2336 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: Vespro Saxophones

          I had to take a break from Saxquest for a while. First of all, I was getting tired of answering the same question time and time again: "What's the best saxophone out there for less than $1,000?" There are several posts and a lot of information on this website to help parents make a wise choice when selecting a new saxophone. I see no reason to keep chewing the same stale cabbage! I have been taking a break from music too, not playing nearly as much this past year as I have been. I got married in June, 2006, and I have enjoyed spending time with my wife. So, to those of you who have been wondering where I have been, now you know. But now I see that you're getting advise from another "Conn man", only this "Conn-man" apparently plays Vespro saxophones, not Conn! This "Sax Gourmet" BULLSHIT artist is sure to leave a "BAD TASTE" in your mouth! I wouldn't believe a word he says!

          Reply To Post Yahoo!


        19. by eman19
          (131 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: Vespro Saxophones

          Ding ding ding we have a winnar.

          Reply To Post


        20. by saxismyaxe
          (574 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: Vespro Saxophones

          I'm not going to step into this cow patty (although I have my opinions to be certain). However, as a side note, everyone should be alerted NOT go to either of Steve Goodson's sites for the time being, as what appears to be a Turkish hacker has broken into his site, and corrupted it. We were alerted on our site to this recent event, and I'm passing it on to everyone here. Clicking on the sites may compromise the security of your computer and personal info via purchases from his webstore MIGHT have been hacked as well. I'm sure Steve will let everyone know when the situation is under control, and what is going on. BTW, nice to see you are still alive and kicking Jim. Cheers. Michael/Saxismyaxe SOTW.

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        21. by saxismyaxe
          (574 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: Vespro Saxophones

          **UPDATE** It appears that Steve's site doesn't actually handle the Mail Order/Internet sales side of things since Katrina, so personal information such as Credit Card # etc. were not available on site to be hacked. I'm sure the owner will clarify this for everyone soon, I'm simply passing on details as I get them.

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        22. by STEVE GOODSON
          (291 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: Vespro Saxophones

          The only site attacked was www.saxgourmet.com, which is an "information only no sales" site which doesn't have the capability of recieving funds. There's no problem with any of the other sites, which are on different servers in different locations.

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        23. by JBTSAX
          (364 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: Vespro Saxophones

          There is apparently no limit to the lies that Goodson will post on his forums both as himself and posing as Gayle Rogers, Johnny Galloway, et.al. It is no wonder he is no longer allowed on the largest saxophone discussion forum. www.saxnation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=437 www.saxnation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=436

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        24. by JBTSAX
          (364 posts)

          7 years ago

          Challenge to Steve Goodson

          In the previous post I provided links to saxnation.com forum where Steve Goodson insinuates that I was the one who illegally hacked into his SaxGourmet website, and that I predicted the crime in advance on alt.music.saxophone. These are serious accusations of criminal activity. I hereby challenge Steve Goodson to produce his proof in support of these malicious accusations or to remove them from his website immediately. Can anyone imagine any other professional in the music industry doing such a thing? I certainly cannot. John B. Talcott

          Reply To Post


        25. by JBTSAX
          (364 posts)

          7 years ago

          By Jove, I Think I've Got It

          I'm becoming more convinced each day that the mystery location where these saxes are manufactured is Viet Nam. My reasons are as follows: 1) The designer on another forum wrote about how one of his "old friends" who he considers to be the best saxophone maker in Taiwan, has now gone to work running a new facility in Viet Nam. He also apparently has inside information that "the plant there is state of the art, with the very latest in technology". 2) The designer has stated on several occasions on many forums that the saxophones are positively not made in China. 3) If the saxes were made in Taiwan, there would be no cause for secrecy because the quality of instruments coming out of Taiwan is well known. 4) Saxophones made in Viet Nam have no such track record, and as such buyers would legitimately be skeptical at first as to the quality of the manufacturing. 5) The official line given to Vespro dealers by the designer's partner Richard Fenno on the Better Winds website is: "Oh, and in answer to 'Where are they made?' you answer Asia. Buy me a drink and I might tell you where they are made, but the only proper answer is Asia." Viet Nam is in southeastern Asia. He also indicates that they are made in a "new facility". If anyone is in the Austin area, look up Richard Fenno and buy him a few drinks and then send me an e mail to let me know if my hunch is right. John

          Reply To Post


        26. by connsaxman_jim
          (2336 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: By Jove, I Think I've Got It

          Road Trip anyone? The saxophone market is changing, much like everything else. Fifty years ago, most of the saxophones sold around the world were made in the USA. Today, there isn't much of anything that's actually made in the USA. Even names that we have come to trust are moving production over seas. While quality has gotten better in some countries who have become more familiar with manufacturing processes (Taiwan, for example), others are still new to the concept, and have much "catching up" to do. China is the biggest exporting country in the world, meaning that they sell more products to other countries, than anyone else! The Chinese people are certainly NOT stupid people. Most are well educated, and they are some of the most creative and innovative people I've found anywhere in the world. I do think; however, that with the number of products exported from China, QUALITY often takes a back seat to QUANTITY. The goal of many of these companies is to make the most amount of products as cheaply as possible, and sell them at substantially lower prices around the world. Now, Viet Nam is also producing saxophones. (Although the marketing company prefer it be said that their horns are made in "Asia"). Is it possible for the country of Viet Nam to produce a saxophone of decent quality? Sure, but if you're like me, the thought of buying a Vietnamese horn is almost like buying one that was made in Iraq. It just doesn't set to well with my conscience.

          Reply To Post Yahoo!


        27. by Thomas Bowles
          (13 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: By Jove, I Think I've Got It

          see

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        28. by JBTSAX
          (364 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: By Jove, I Think I've Got It

          Hi Thomas. I see that this is your first post here and at Saxnation. How do we know you are not Steve Goodson himself posting under an assumed identity since he has been caught doing so several times on other forums using such names as Sam Chirella, Gimish, Hornsmasher etc? If you have proof you are not Goodson himself, it would be appreciated if you would share that with us here at Saxquest. Earlier in this thread Goodson wrote this about where the Vespro is made: "Before you ask, due to strict confidentiality agreements, we do not reveal any vendor information whatsoever. The above is all the information we are able to discuss, and is all that we will reveal. Vendor information is strictly proprietary." Now you are publicly breaking these confidentiality agreements and disclosing that the paperwork that came with your brand new Vespro says Taiwan. What is most surprising is that you let the cat out of the bag on Goodson's own discussion forum and he allowed that post to remain unedited. A glance at the Tenon Industrial Co. Ltd website shows that a significant part of their business is distributing and exporting musical instruments that are made in mainland China. Since you did not indicate that the instrument itself is marked with the name of the country of origin as required by U.S. law, the name on the packing slip is quite meaningless. They could be the company that imported the saxes from somewhere else to distribute them to the United States or a packing slip bearing that name with the instrument's serial number could have been put in the sax case at any point before it was shipped to you. If the Vespro saxophones really are manufactured in Taiwan which has earned a very good reputation for producing quality instruments in the last several years, then why would Orpheus Music go to so much trouble to keep that information from the buying public? John

          Reply To Post


        29. by Thomas Bowles
          (13 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: By Jove, I Think I've Got It

          Hi John I'm pretty angry about your remarks, so I promise to do my best to keep my temper. I don't know where you get off questioning who I am. I didn't know that proof of citizenship was required here. How can you tell who anybody is? It's the internet, and anybody can be anybody the want. I'm very concerned that you accuse me of being Mr. Goodson. You have no basis for that belief, and no evidence that I am not who I say I am. How do I know who you are? You have said that I have broken a confidentiality agreement. What agreement? I don't have any such contract with anybody. I would appreciate it if you would please explain yourself on this, sir. I don't know what Tenon's business is or where they get their horns, and I don't care. I just bought a horn that I liked that played well for me. I have read all about you on Mr. Goodson's forum, and know that you are stalking him. That's between you and him, and I'm not going to get involved in it. I read your profile on this forum, and it makes me very suspicious of anything you say. I know that Steve Goodson is well known and respected world wide for his expertise. I never heard of you. I tried to answer a question, and that was all I wanted to do. I don't appreciate this abuse, or being drug into your little crusade against Mr. Goodson.

          Reply To Post


        30. by connsaxman_jim
          (2336 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: By Jove, I Think I've Got It

          This is funny. I have read all about you on Mr. Goodson's forum, and know that you are stalking him." I highly doubt that anyone is stalking Mr. Goodson. . "I know that Steve Goodson is well known and respected world wide for his expertise." Steve Goodson's credibility has been in question for some time now. Quite frankly, he's more full of shit than a Texas cattle ranch! He does not have the greatest reputation, and one only needs to read though some of the previous posts and comments to see why.

          Reply To Post Yahoo!


        31. by STEVE GOODSON
          (291 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: By Jove, I Think I've Got It

          RE: my credibility Jim: You need to do a little reality check. You may not like me. That's fine with me, as I'm certainly not very impressed with your knowlege of the subject. That being said, Jim, I note with interest that neither you or our esteemed stalker John Talcott seem to have: (1) designed instruments which are sold in large quantity throughout the world. These instruments bear my name or the logo "designed by Steve Goodson". These instruments sell in big numbers, Jim. (2) have written articles published on three different continents by various musical periodicals (3) presented numerous seminars for groups such as NAPBIRT and the North American Saxophone Alliance. (4) been the subject of a nine page article in The Saxophone Journal, along with a "cover appearance" (5) been employed as a design consultant for numerous instrument manufacturers (contract basis) and repair tool manufacturers and accessory makers. (6) I've have an extremely successful performance career, having played with many of the most popular and successful touring acts in the world. I'm retired from playing now, Jim, for reasons of health, but continue to recieve a nice stream of royalties from recordings I've appear on years ago which still sell in beig numbers today. (7) I've been a guest lecturer at many universities, many more times than I can count. (8) a number of my former students have gone on to extremely successful performance careers, making big money with major rock stars. (9) I've been the subject of several television programs recognizing my unique designs and success. I've also worked as a consultant for several television networks (national, not local) on the subject of woodwinds and music history. There's lots more, Jim, but you get the picture. I've been extremely successful in this industry, both professionally and financially, for many, many years. I know not everyone likes me. However, far more people like me than dislike me, so I figure I'm way ahead of the game. Interestingly, professionals and manufacturers in the industry continue to seek me out. I guess if I didn't know what I was doing, that would have stopped long ago. It hasn't. Sorry you're unhappy with me. What have you accomplished lately?

          Reply To Post


        32. by kneejerk52
          (397 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: By Jove, I Think I've Got It

          you know i come on this forum to help me better myself as a player gaining knowledge through the wisdom of people willing to share. so far i have not seen anything worth remembering from anyone here. although i have gained info from steves web and spoke to him when i was first doing a diy job on a horn, he was very honest to me and helped me very much. remind me why we should care if you don't like steve or his horn. does he take away something that belongs to you?? is he infringing on your right to do business. i am in sales and the first thing we learn is NEVER put down the other guys product, just show them why ours is better.

          Reply To Post


        33. by STEVE GOODSON
          (291 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: By Jove, I Think I've Got It

          Thank you for your kind remarks. I don't get it about these guys: I don't know them, have never done business with them, and don't know how I have any impact whatsoever on their lives. To the very best of my knowlege, they have never actually played or examined any of my products. Yet they go to great lengths to disparage me. I guess I have a life, and have better things to do with my time. I can only theorize that they resent the fact that I have been extremely successful in this industry, and insofar as I know, they have not.

          Reply To Post


        34. by JBTSAX
          (364 posts)

          7 years ago

          I note with interest:

          Dear Steve Goodson, You are absolutely right. You have accomplished many things that I have not. I NOTE WITH INTEREST THAT: I have never returned a different instrument to a customer than the one that was sent to me for repairs and then lie about it. I have never returned an instrument I overhauled to a customer in such poor condition that it required another $458 just to make it playable. I have never failed to return a customer's instrument until the local police became involved. I have never had an entire website created for the sole purpose of warning people not to do business with me. I have never had 5 or more complaints filed about my business practices at the Better Business Bureau. I have never been banned from posting on the largest saxophone discussion forum where members are not even allowed to say my name. I have never had to create imaginary people on my own forum to have conversations with in order to pay compliments to myself or to promote my products. I have never had to hide behind those same imaginary people to say vile and vulgar things about anyone who has questioned or disagreed with me in another forum. I have never had a formal complaint sent to the National Association of Band Instrument Repair Technicians about my dishonest business practices. I have never written racist comments in a forum and stood behind those remarks when asked about them. I have never resorted to making homophobic gay bashing comments about someone's sexual orientation simply because that individual disagreed with me on a technical issue in a public forum. I have never publicly accused someone of a crime with no basis whatsoever for the sole purpose of defaming that person's character. If this is your definition of a being a success Steve, I'd just as soon keep on being a loser by your standards. John

          Reply To Post


        35. by JBTSAX
          (364 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: By Jove, I Think I've Got It

          Read this post by Steve Goodson and then go to this link: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megalomania

          Reply To Post


        36. by cuber
          (653 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: By Jove, I Think I've Got It

          you want to know why its so obvious that thomas bowles and steve goodson are the same people? read one of each of their articles. they are written in the same style of writing, using the same tone of "voice", witch is very hard to copy, unless you try to. I would like to thank my repair man, paul maslin, for being an honost person

          Reply To Post


        37. by JBTSAX
          (364 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: By Jove, I Think I've Got It

          It seems as if Thomas Bowles is not Steve Goodson after all. Goodson has removed Thomas' post from Saxnation. Apparently the cat was let out of the bag before Goodson noticed the post and pulled the drawstrings. My apologies Thomas. It is hard to know who is real and who isn't on Goodson's forum since he uses so many phony identities to schill his products and to flame his critics. I didn't have the foresight to copy your post to Saxnation, but the jist of it was that you had received your new Vespro Saxophone and inside the case was a packing slip that said Tenon Industrial Company Ltd. Taiwan China and included the serial number of the saxophone. Thanks Thomas for sharing that information with all of us. The fact that Goodson deleted your post should answer your question about the confidentiality concerns about where the saxes are manufactured. John

          Reply To Post


        38. by Thomas Bowles
          (13 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: By Jove, I Think I've Got It

          I find it hard to believe anything you have to say, John. You accused me of something without a shred of evidence. Just because you say something is so doesn't make it so. Why are you so fascinated with Mr. Goodson?

          Reply To Post


        39. by connsaxman_jim
          (2336 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: By Jove, I Think I've Got It

          No, Steve Goodson, I do NOT know you. Thankfully, I read the warnings from Saxquest members and others whom you have done business with before having any dealings with you. Based on what I've read both here and other various websites as John mentioned above, you sir, are a crook! It seems that your only interest in this forum is your own pocketbook! You use this website to promote your second-rate saxophones and boost your ego. Why all the secrecy regarding Vespro? What are you so ashamed of? Truth of the matter is, even if you said that they were made on some tiny island in the South Pacific. and that prior to making saxophones, the only manufacturing these workers had done was making bows and arrows out of sticks and stones, most people wouldn't care! You could say that the average worker was only 14 years old and that you paid them in orange soda pop....again, most people wouldn't care! But, evade the question, and people care! I do not design saxophones nor do I have any interest whatsoever in designing them. I enjoy playing them. When people ask me my opinions, I am happy to share them. I have had a pretty successful career in music also; having played with many great musicians. Some very well known, and some local greats; I have learned from the best! I am very proud of what I have accomplished. My knowledge comes from my own research and experience, having played for more than 25 years. Although I haven't lectured at any saxophone seminars, I have taught private lessons, and worked with many jr. high and high school students. I answer at least 10 emails per day from Saxquest members and others. I have submitted over 2200 posts to Saxquest in the nearly 5 years that I have been a member. I have not profited one cent from my advise, product endorsements, research, etc. I take the time out of my busy schedule to answer questions and respond to emails because this is something that I enjoy doing. Apparently a lot of people value and respect my opinions because there is never a shortage of emails, and though it may take a couple days for me to respond, I do try to answer all of them. It's not MY credibility that is in question here, Mr. Goodson, it's yours. Several people, not just myself, have questioned your honesty and integrity because of your business practices. You may be a brilliant saxophone artist and designer. In fact, I am quite convinced that you are, and I admire your expertise. But I have very little respect for a crook! Jim

          Reply To Post Yahoo!


        40. by STEVE GOODSON
          (291 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: By Jove, I Think I've Got It

          Jim: It's not breaking my heart that you don't like me. Since you have given your opinion of me, let me share mine of you: You are yet another self-appointed internet "expert" with no real knowlege or accomplishment in the industry. If you had any real knowlege, or had any accomplishments or significant contributions, they would have been recognized by others. Your expertise, insofar as I can determine, is recognized only by yourself. I would also caution you against believing everything you read on the internet, or accepting it as truth. Do you know these things to be absolute facts, or are you taking the word of someone you don't really know? If you are taking the word of a third party, how are you assured of their accuracy. Jim, go right ahead with your beliefs and your little crusade. You're in great company with the illustrious John Talcott. You guys can sit around and pat yourselves on the back and tell each other how great you are. I don't care.

          Reply To Post


        41. by JBTSAX
          (364 posts)

          7 years ago

          What to expect next from Soxgourmet

          Jim, If you are not familiar with how Steve Goodson operates, let me fill you in on what happens next. Since you had the audacity to question or criticize His Benevolent Despotship on Saxquest, he will retreat to the safety of his own forum Saxnation otherwise known as Fantasy Island. There, true to form, he will bring out his sock puppets to call you vulgar juvenile schoolyard names and to taunt you on a forum you can't respond to him on because he controls the membership and everything that is written. Because he is too big a coward to speak to you directly, he will pose as either Gayle Rogers, Johnny Galloway, Sam McDavid, Marshall Holmes, or Sam Jack Chirella who Goodson was caught posing as on Sax on the Web a while back. Can you believe this individual is the public representative of Orpheus Music? They must really be proud of the company image he presents to those who read the trash he writes on his forum on the web. John

          Reply To Post


        42. by kelsey
          (818 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: What to expect next from Soxgourmet

          You guys make Steve Goodson sound like a really terrible person. He's being attacked from all sides. I'm glad you guys aren't after me like that. My advice to him is quit answering and quit digging the hole deeper. I never warmed to him or his saxes. He lists in his Bio that his favorite music to play and listen to is Rock and Roll. It seems to me that if the guy is so smart and talented he would have listed Jazz or Classical music. The guys I know who are mainly Rock saxophone players aren't really good. I'm sorry I'm hurting some rock and roll feelings out there. I've played rock gigs myself but it's not my favorite music to play. I am enjoying this thread but I'm usually rooting for the underdog, even if he is a dork.........Kelsey
          Barry Kelsey

          Reply To Post AIM


        43. by STEVE GOODSON
          (291 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: What to expect next from Soxgourmet

          My training was all classical saxophone, which is something I'm very fond of. All my students have to play classical before I'll teach them how to play "Night Train" while walking the bar. I mostly use the Ferling Etudes and similar material with my students. I've had two former students appear on the cover of Saxophone Journal, so I guess I'm doing something right. I also have two different quartets, one of my advanced students and one of other professionals here in New Orleans. I play 1st alto/soprano/sopranino in both. The "professional" quartet plays mostly Rudy Weidoft/Six Brown Brothers material, which is a lot of fun and extremely technique intensive. The student quartet is strictly classical. I'm not a big jazz guy. I admire the many fine players ability, but the format just never really appealed to me. I also know that the guy who is playing "Giant Steps" on Saturday night in a bar is probably getting paid a LOT less than the guy down the street playing "Mustang Sally". Don't sell the rock and roll players short just because you don't know any personally who have a high skill level. There are plenty of rock saxophonists out there with incredible chops. It's also where the money is. Before you accuse me of being mercenary, remember that if I don't make a living doing this, then I have to get a real day job. Part of my point in this response is to point out that you don't really know me or much about me. I have a strong classical background and play it regularly. Don't listen to the trolls. They have never met me, and know almost nothing about me. What they don't know, they seem to be making up as they go along. They resent the fact that I've been very successful in this business for a very long time and they haven't. They seem to believe they can get some recognition for themselves by attacking me. I would submit that if the trolls had any significant accomplishments of their own, they would gain recognition that way. Apparently they don't, and haven't.

          Reply To Post


        44. by kneejerk52
          (397 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: What to expect next from Soxgourmet

          although it's much more fun just reading this stuff when somebody says something REALLY Stupid i just can't help it jb if you ever talked to Gayle Rodgers you would know she runs a very honest and helpful web site and i personally have been in conversation with her several times at which she also was extremely helpful when nobody else could help it's starting to look like YOU are the one setting of the BS meter and talking out the wrong end.

          Reply To Post


        45. by JBTSAX
          (364 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: What to expect next from Soxgourmet

          Hey kneejerk52. Would you like to provide Gayle's Website so we can check her out. I also would like to know how you know it is the same Gayle Rogers on Soxnation whose profile only says: Location: USA Website: Occupation: Music teacher/performer Interests: There must be a thousand real Gayle Rogers in the USA. Tell me how you know that the one who always adds some vulgar comment right after a post by Soxgourmet attacking someone on his forum is the one in your "helpful" website. John

          Reply To Post


        46. by JBTSAX
          (364 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: What to expect next from Soxgourmet

          Notice how nice and professional Steve's response is in this thread. ( Notice also how he has not denied anything that is written in the post above). For those who want to know more about the REAL Steve Goodson and how two faced he can be, check out the following threads. As you do so remember that Gayle Rogers and Johnny Galloway are really Steve Goodson himself. home.earthlink.net/~keithhenson/goodsonbeware.html www.saxnation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=431 www.saxnation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=353 www.saxnation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=119 Remember that Steve Goodson is the public figure who represents Orpheus Music. They must be proud of the image he presents to the public in his forum. John

          Reply To Post


        47. by kneejerk52
          (397 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: What to expect next from Soxgourmet

          my bad Gayle F. Not Gayle R vintagesax.com oh, and your home.carthlink froze my computer as soon as i opened it and the other two would not work

          Reply To Post


        48. by Thomas Bowles
          (13 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: What to expect next from Soxgourmet

          john: first you said I was Mr. Goodson, then you said I wasn't Mr. Goodson. Which is it? Now you say that Gayle Rogers and John Gallaway are Mr. Goodson. What evidence do you have? This is pretty stupid, and the one who looks really stupid is you, John. You dream up all these crazy scenarios but never offer any sort of proof. I think you are doing this just to get attention for yourself. That's pretty juvenile if you asked me.

          Reply To Post


        49. by JBTSAX
          (364 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: What to expect next from Soxgourmet

          Hi Thomas, To set the record straight I never accused you of anything. I was accusing Steve Goodson of posting under another false identity as he has been caught doing so many times in the past on Sax on the Web and Alt.Music.Saxophone. If you have not participated in sax discussion forums much it is understandable that you don't know the history of his charades. I have apologized to you for making this wrong assumption. I don't know what more I can do. Please note that the link you provided no longer exists. I see that Goodson has moved your comments to the John Talcott Troll thread and deleted the reference to the packing slip on which was printed Tenon Industrial Co. Ltd Taiwan that you found in your new Vespro case. If you send me an e-mail I will be happy to provide the details that exist about Goodson posing as other people on his and other forums. Believe me, the last thing I need is to do is get attention for myself. My only purpose in writing these posts on this forum and others is to expose the dishonesty and vulgarity that Steve Goodson displays by what he writes on Saxnation both as Saxgourmet posing as Gayle Rogers, Johnny Galloway, and others. I have on several occasions asked him to remove the vulgar comments about me on his forum and he has refused. If I was seeking attention as you claim, why would I be asking him to remove my name and all references to me in his forum? If you want to read something really juvenile go to this link and picture Steve Goodson pretending to be Gayle Rogers saying this to me. What a hoot. www.saxnation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=402

          Reply To Post


        50. by kelsey
          (818 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: What to expect next from Soxgourmet

          My advice to you is shut up. This John guy is ruining your name. Pay him the money you owe him and go on with your life Practiceing with some of your buddies in a sax emsemble to get your Mustang Sally chops up dosen't make you a real player. The good rock sax players I know play rock for the money but are really jazz players. In our wonderful country it's not what you can do, it's what people think you can do. Your horns are really pretty to look at. That is the most important thing to rock fans. They listen with their eyes. I have had friends who were fired and been fired myself from commercial gigs because our Mark Vls wasn't shiney enough. I don't know you. You might be more than the honker I think you are. You telling me about your wonderful carreer dosen't convince me..........Kelsey (looks like I 'm joining the attack dogs)
          Barry Kelsey

          Reply To Post AIM


        51. by JBTSAX
          (364 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: What to expect next from Soxgourmet

          Kelsey, Just a point of clarification. I'm not ruining Steve Goodson's good name and reputation. He is doing a great job of that all by himself. Just think of me as sort of his publicity agent. Steve owes several people restitution, but I'm not one of them. If you are going to run with the attack dogs, just remember that Snixy says that dogs don't bark at cars that are standing still. However, they might make a statement directed at the tires. John

          Reply To Post


        52. by connsaxman_jim
          (2336 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: What to expect next from Soxgourmet

          I'm not the one making Steve Goodson look like such a terrible person, Steve has done a pretty good job of that himself! All you have to do is look at the various comments made all over the internet; including as John said, an entire website for the sole purpose of warning others NOT to do business with him! Me an expert? Well, I don't know about that. I never claimed to be an "expert". I have learned a great deal from this site and from researching horns for other people. I know more than probably a lot of people; especially when it comes to vintage American horns. I have a considerable amount of experience and I have done my homework. Kristy Knorter is the expert! I refer all of the really hard questions to her! I love to play music, and I love helping people. I especially love helping people play music! I enjoy sharing stories and information with other people, and I hope to inspire them by doing so. If other people consider me an "expert", I'm flattered.

          Reply To Post Yahoo!


        53. by STEVE GOODSON
          (291 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: What to expect next from Soxgourmet

          As a matter of clarification: I don't owe John Talcott any money. I have never met him. I have never done any business with him. I have never spoken to him in person or by telephone.

          Reply To Post


        54. by connsaxman_jim
          (2336 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: What to expect next from Suxgourmet

          If there were only one or two negative comments about you, Steve, I would be less convinced. I'm sure there are people here who don't like me for whatever reason. A couple years ago, I bashed Cannonball saxophones and caught some flack for that. And by the way, Cannonball fans....I really like the new horns and my opinion has changed in the last couple years! No more hate mail please!!! But, Mr. Goodson, your name has been drug through the mud on EVERY saxophone site except your own! I'm not questioning your expertise or your accomplishments; which are quite impressive. What I am questioning are your business ethics, your honesty and integrity, which are really quite appalling!

          Reply To Post Yahoo!


        55. by kelsey
          (818 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: What to expect next from Suxgourmet

          Steve. Sorry I've been so rude. You have done well in the wonderful world of the saxophone. I won't bug you anymore........Kelsey
          Barry Kelsey

          Reply To Post AIM


        56. by connsaxman_jim
          (2336 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: What to expect next from Suxgourmet

          I have updated my profile. Take a look at my Bio and please let me know what you think. Kristy, if you happen to see this post, I just want you to know how much I appreciate all of your comments and your feedback. You really are the expert! Thanks, Jim

          Reply To Post Yahoo!


        57. by kelsey
          (818 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: What to expect next from Suxgourmet

          Jim, I for one never have thought you were an expert. But thanks for clearing things up for me.........Kelsey
          Barry Kelsey

          Reply To Post AIM


        58. by cuber
          (653 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: What to expect next from Suxgourmet

          wow. people take things way too personel

          Reply To Post


        59. by CountSpatula
          (602 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: What to expect next from Suxgourmet

          Popcorn anyone?

          Reply To Post AIM


        60. by JBTSAX
          (364 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: What to expect next from Suxgourmet

          Thomas Bowles, I hope you are still reading this thread. Please notice how Steve Goodson has edited and moved your original post on Saxnation forum. Now he is claiming that your original post was about a special backpack case and that the case, not the saxophone was made by Tenon Industrial Co. www.saxnation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=431 Now both you and I know your original post on Saxnation was about your new Vespro Sax that you found a packing slip inside the case with the name of the company AND THE SERIAL NUMBER OF THE SAXOPHONE. Now think about it. How would the case manufacturer know in advance which sax manufactured somewhere was eventually going to be put in that case so they could put its serial number on their packing slip. Are you starting to understand the lies I have been referring to in my posts? Why don't you ask Steve yourself why he edited your post and is now lying about the information you provided. John

          Reply To Post


        61. by Thomas Bowles
          (13 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: What to expect next from Suxgourmet

          The number on the packing slip was VE-225, which I took to be the serial number. I now know after corresponding with Mr. Goodson that it is the model number, not the serial number. He removed my post with my permission since it was misleading. I didn't think that trying to answer a question would ever lead to all of this. It was an honest mistake on my part. The packing slip was in the side pocket of the case, not on the saxophone. I didn't consider it any kind of a big deal. I was naive. At the time I didn't think my words would be used against anybody. I think the person telling the lies is you. I have never met Mr. Goodson, but am very happy with the saxophone and regret that my joining his forum caused so much confusion. It looks to me like you grasp at anything to discredit him and attempt to twist anything anyone says about him that is good to mean something it doesn't. Thats the same as telling lies.

          Reply To Post


        62. by STEVE GOODSON
          (291 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: What to expect next from Suxgourmet

          Thank you for clearing this up, and thank you for your remarks which strike to the heart of this discussion. I apologize for the abuse you have suffered at the hands of other people.

          Reply To Post


        63. by saxismyaxe
          (574 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: What to expect next from Suxgourmet

          Ah, Don't you just love a good fight! Glad I don't have to referee it. Interesting that Mr. T.B.'s very first, brand spanking new posts are in this thread only, with predictable, identifiable dialog. And just in time too! Hmmm.... I see a familiar pattern there. I have no dog in this fight, I'm just saying........

          Reply To Post


        64. by saxismyaxe
          (574 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: What to expect next from Suxgourmet

          Ah, Don't you just love a good fight! Glad I don't have to referee it. Interesting that Mr. T.B.'s very first, brand spanking new posts are in this thread only, with predictable, identifiable dialog. And just in time too! Hmmm.... I see a familiar pattern there. I have no dog in this fight, I'm just saying........

          Reply To Post


        65. by saxismyaxe
          (574 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: What to expect next from Suxgourmet

          So fascinating, I repeated myself. ;)

          Reply To Post


        66. by connsaxman_jim
          (2336 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: What to expect next from Suxgourmet

          I really hate to say anything bad about another saxophone player. I always try to look for something positive to say. Steve Goodson has had more influence on the saxophone industry than anyone in the last 50 years! I am not denying his level of expertise, and I can respect him for that. But let's be honest here Steve! Your reputation isn't the greatest! I'm merely expressing concern for many of the articles and comments that I have read questioning your honesty and integrity as a businessman; none of which were authored by me. I think you should address some of these comments and concerns that others may have about doing business with you. Now, what started as a simple question regarding the manufacturing of Vespro has turned into a huge debate and question of character. I think maybe it's time to spill the beans about Vespro and answer this question! Maybe it would help your credibility, Jim

          Reply To Post Yahoo!


        67. by JBTSAX
          (364 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: What to expect next from Suxgourmet

          You are certainly an expert on abuse Steve. While you are being so magnanimous, how about an apology for all of the vulgar verbal abuse heaped upon myself, Gordon, Grumps, Pete Hales, and the members of SOTW by you and your sockpuppets on your forum. To anyone fooled by the oily professionalism and charm oozing from Goodson as he posts in this thread, just hop on over to Soxnation here to see the other side of this man's slimy face. Remember it is Goodson himself pretending to be Gale Rogers and Johnny Galloway as he writes about other people's private parts. Don't miss the bigotry and racism that comes through as well as he writes about gays and Muslims. The racism toward blacks I will leave for another post. www.saxnation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=431

          Reply To Post


        68. by JBTSAX
          (364 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: What to expect next from Soxgourmet

          Thanks Thomas for the correction I only had your statement to go by and I took you at your word. The packing slip inside the case still said Tenon Industrial Co. Ltd. did it not? It also included the model number of the saxophone which was VE-225. That still begs the question of why the packing slip of the case manufacturer as Goodson alleges would have the model number of the saxophone manufactured somewhere else. The root cause of this issue is the fact that there is such secrecy surrounding the origin of all of the saxophones that Goodson has anything to do with. That in itself raises suspicion that there is something to hide. Perhaps Steve Goodson can say unequivocally in this foum that neither the Vespro, Steve Goodson, or Saxgourmet models are made by the Tenon Industrial Co. or the factories in Taiwan and Vietnam that produce the Chateau line of saxophones. That wouldn't tell anyone where they are made if none of them are made there and therefore wouldn't break any confidentiality agreements with vendors. It would simply rule out one company who supposedly just furnishes cases for those saxes. And Thomas I hope that both you and Sam Jack Chirella enjoy playing your new Vespro saxes. John

          Reply To Post


        69. by JZ
          (83 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: What to expect next

          Sax players complaining about character assassination. This is a great thread. If someone screwed up my overhaul I'd tell everyone, too. I feel that these threads are important to the industry and profession. If someone is posing as another person, that is a serious offense. BTW: Someone buys a sax and doesn’t know the model number? And he has to call the shop to find out what the serial number is? As much popcorn as is required.

          Reply To Post


        70. by Donnie The B
          (282 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: What to expect next from Suxgourmet

          Now that's funny, Count! I don't know who or what to believe in this extremely long, vitriolic thread. A year or so ago some advice from Steve Goodson liberated my mind enough to try a newer horn, despite my previous vintage horn snobbery. And in my rock band, I now use a $1000 horn instead of a $6000 horn - much easier to leave on the bandstand at a break. And it seems to work OK and still sounds like me! This does not mean that I think all these new brands are good, or that the great old vintage horns I love are any less desirable. But Mr. Goodson did say something once in an interesting discussion thread about horn quality that many of us old timers have to accept. They don't make them here any more, and unless you're buying a Paris Selmer, you're subject to be getting an Asian made saxophone. And Conn Man Jim has my respect and has added to my knowledge. He opened my mind up to try a vintage brand that I used to have a prejudice against. This is now my 2nd favorite horn! It might all boil down to this - Try it before you buy it and don't buy it if it's poorly made. Thanks to all of you who give of your time to try to help others unselfishly.

          Reply To Post


        71. by cuber
          (653 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: What to expect next from Suxgourmet

          you know, i wonder what would happen if everybody stopped going on here for hours a day and used that time to practise

          Reply To Post


        72. by knorter
          (205 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: What to expect next from Suxgourmet

          Wow, see what happens when I take a few weeks off. While I don't moderate the General Discussions I still log on from time to time just to stay in touch. While I apreciate the kind words from Jim, I've spent enough time in New York playing next to some of the best players to realize I'm no expert. All that any of us can do is share our experiences and hope that our journeys parallel and assist others in their journeys. I liked this quote: Never become so much of an expert that you stop gaining expertise. View life as a continuous learning experience. Stole it from some guy off the internet named Denis Waitley. I'm always extremely suspicious of anyone claiming to be an expert. The only thing that I'm an expert in is knowing when to shut down the "pick up the pieces" thread :) enough already. Kristy

          Reply To Post Yahoo! AIM ICQ


        73. by JBTSAX
          (364 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: Saxgourmet---A New Perspective

          I'm bringing this thread back up so everyone can enjoy reading Thomas Bowle's posts with a new perspective. John

          Reply To Post


        74. by JBTSAX
          (364 posts)

          7 years ago

          Re: Thomas Bowles views on Vespros

          I'm bringing this thread back up so everyone can enjoy Thomas Bowle's comments. John

          Reply To Post


        75. by saxchump
          (1 post)

          5 years ago

          Re: Thomas Bowles views on Vespros

          While shopping for a Sax for my son, I entered VESPRO and ended up here, not to beat the dead horse, but I am prepared to make a purchase, so, did anyone ever conclusively discover where the Vespro Alto is made? Country of origin is important in that, i dont support slave labor. I buy Kanstul (trumpets) for a reason, they are made here (USA). And for that matter, there are still USA King's floating around for reasonable prices, but I really want a good sax for the kids that plays easy, sounds good, durable and yes, affordable. I hope this doesnt reignite a the bombing campaign!!

          Reply To Post


        76. by cuber
          (653 posts)

          5 years ago

          Re: Thomas Bowles views on Vespros

          wow... this brings back memories. dont worry about starting an argument like that. they got "asked" to leave anyway, my money is on they are made in china or taiwan, or another one of those cheap-labor crappy-product countries. is your son a beginner? cause if he is, look into a yamaha 23.

          Reply To Post


      2. by saxall60
        (29 posts)

        5 years ago

        Re: Vespro Saxophones

        That was a good question, indeed ! Something else ?

        Reply To Post


        1. by saxxsymbol
          (217 posts)

          5 years ago

          Re: Vespro Saxophones

          Vespro was made in a new factory in Vietnam. Really a great playing horn with very good build quality. Has a better sound than a Yamaha 23. Perfect for students or someone with smallish hands. noteworthy on ebay has some new for about $ 400.

          Reply To Post