Saxophone Forum


by Rben20
(35 posts)
10 years ago

Sax Lacquers

Can someone please explain what the different types of lacquers do to your sound? Example Black, Silver, Etc. Thanks

Reply To Post [Report Abuse]

Report Abuse

Replies

  1. by Rben20
    (35 posts)

    10 years ago

    Re: Sax Lacquers

    Finishes on the same horn ,but I realized it's more of just a look. Im just gonna keep the sax I have and be glad I have one if my own. Why waste time selling and buying a horn of the same brand/model when its just a different finish

    Reply To Post


  2. by golferguy675
    (600 posts)

    10 years ago

    Re: Sax Lacquers

    There's a posts with all this shit on page two or three, maybe four, but here it goes. Black: Sometimes a little more bright, or even less resonant, since on the good ones there's a layer of gold lacquer under it, and it sort of muffles it. Silver: Just about always more bright, sometimes oo bright, I don't like it very much. Gold: Warm, basically normal Unlacquered: Much more resonant, what a lot of jazz musicians go after Matte: More of a vintage, fat sound, but sometimes sort of stuffy. There's also some rare ones, but there's a bunch, and I'm not going to go over them all.

    Reply To Post


    1. by johnsonfromwisconsin
      (767 posts)

      10 years ago

      Re: Sax Lacquers

      Rben, keep one thing in mind: This topic isn't cut and dry. There are those that advocate that finish has little to nothingto do with the sound of the horn given that it's the vibrating aircolumn inside the horn that one actually hears. I happen to think finish *does* have something to do with it given the properties of reverse resonance that can be stiffled in various degrees by different thicknesses and resonant properties of a finish, but that's just me, and I think it's a very minor effect. I am convinced that the mouthpiece, reed, a players own throat and design of the first few inches of the saxophone's bore have much more to do with tone than finish does. I

      Reply To Post


      1. by SaxMan
        (559 posts)

        10 years ago

        Re: Sax Lacquers

        uhhh...I would say that the black lacquer is very dark, with 5 laters of lacquer applied. (On selmers anyway.) The white is just dead because on that there is 7 layers. the gold is darker because gold is so soft and it also has a layer of silver beneath it. Silver is probably the most resonant and focused with a very rich quality. plain lacquer you will know. bare brass is kind fo HUGE with nothing messing with the vibrations matte finishes make for a more lusty sound nickel makes a really clear, loud prominant sound. (play an sx90 oine time and youll know what I am talkigna bout.) enamel makes it dead and thats all i can think of

        Reply To Post


        1. by chiamac
          (586 posts)

          10 years ago

          Re: Sax Lacquers

          "the gold is darker because gold is so soft and it also has a layer of silver beneath it." prove it.

          Reply To Post Yahoo! AIM


        2. by golferguy675
          (600 posts)

          10 years ago

          Re: Sax Lacquers

          I know this commen isn't directed to me, but what exactly do you mean by prove it? Would you like him to scratch a gold plated sax and take a picture of it for you? Maybe not all of the gold plates have the layer of silver, but most of the better ones actually do. Especially the older ones. A lot of the newer less expensive ones have that cut out to decrease the cost though. But gold is darker, and almost always, it DOES have a layer of silver beneath it.

          Reply To Post


        3. by chiamac
          (586 posts)

          10 years ago

          Re: Sax Lacquers

          I want him to start showing links or resources that prove what he is saying. not only to validate him, but to us a place to go and read about it.

          Reply To Post Yahoo! AIM


        4. by SaxMan
          (559 posts)

          10 years ago

          Re: Sax Lacquers

          anyone with an sat score of 12 knows that about the gold plating.

          Reply To Post


        5. by sax_maniac
          (984 posts)

          10 years ago

          Re: Sax Lacquers

          I got a 31 on my ACT years ago, and I didn't know about the silver thing. I guess I was one of the fortunate kids who didn't have to take advanced metallurgy to graduate from high school. Sorry - didn't have to take the SAT with such a killer ACT score, so I'm sorry I can't whip it out and show it to you. I'm with JFW - talking about how lacquer affects sound is almost pointless in comparison as to how a mouthpiece does. I would contend that the thickness of a tooth guard (or lack of using one) has more affect on the sound than what lacquer is applied. It would be hard to tell in a blind test between unlacquered and silver/gold plated, though I believe that a heavily applied colored lacquer would deaden things a bit. This splitting hairs over how lacquer affects sound is not only rambling, but offers little information. I'd rather talk about eggs.

          Reply To Post


        6. by Black Orpheus
          (23 posts)

          10 years ago

          Re: Sax Lacquers

          That's interesting, I've thought about how much using a teeth guard or mouthpiece cushion affects your sound. I use one of those thicker black mouthpiece cushions all the time, so I assume my sound has already developed with the pad. Has anyone's sound changed much due to cushions or guards or anything like that? Or is it not advantageous to use a mouthpiece cushion (even though I'm sure that's not the case). I mean, your mouth must form differently around the mouthpiece when you use a cushion or guard, but it couldn't affect sound greatly, could it?

          Reply To Post


        7. by golferguy675
          (600 posts)

          10 years ago

          Re: Sax Lacquers

          Actually, if anything, I would say it might help. If it's one of the thicker ones like you're talking about, it would slightly open your eoumbechure, making more of an 'o' shape, how it should(at least for legit). But I would think the effect would be extremely minute. I agree also that lacquer has very little effect on the sound. With a reed, or mouthpiece, or something like that, lacquer isn't going to change hardly anything, I was just tellin the man what he wanted to hear.

          Reply To Post


        8. by Rben20
          (35 posts)

          10 years ago

          Re: Sax Lacquers

          Hey thanks for the info. really helped out. I guess lacquer is just a look when comparing it to other more important things that affect your sound. Hey about that guard, I think it makes a difference. I tried playing without it cause I made a huge hole in mine after a year and WOW I just had to go out and buy it before playing. You feel like u need that thing to play. It just feels so akward not having it. Try it out and see what u think!

          Reply To Post


        9. by johnsonfromwisconsin
          (767 posts)

          10 years ago

          Re: Sax Lacquers

          Personally, I'm not convinced a mouthgaurd alters the sound comming out of the horn. I am convinced, however, that it alters the player's perspective of the sound.

          Reply To Post


        10. by golferguy675
          (600 posts)

          10 years ago

          Re: Sax Lacquers

          Well........then you're an idiot.

          Reply To Post


        11. by johnsonfromwisconsin
          (767 posts)

          10 years ago

          Re: Sax Lacquers

          --------------------------------------------------------------------- Well........then you're an idiot. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes, because you think a piece of plastic that sits beneath you're teeth has such an effect on the vibration of the air column, you must be the enlightened one. @_@

          Reply To Post


        12. by johnsonfromwisconsin
          (767 posts)

          10 years ago

          Re: Sax Lacquers

          Oh wait, hold on! That doesn't actually sound enlightened at all. It's absurd!

          Reply To Post


        13. by golferguy675
          (600 posts)

          10 years ago

          Re: Sax Lacquers

          Well actually John, the mouthpiece(plastic? I hope not) DOES have an effect on the frequencies of the sound that enters the air collumn. So if a different frequency sound is going through the collumn, a different frequency is going to come out, so physically yes, it would change the sound coming through the air collumn. Second, it really depends on your definition of sound. The word sound to me encopasses tone, edge, and mood, as well as the physical noise. Noise would be the word I would think of that "wouldn't" be affected by the mouthpiece. Not so absurd after all, eh?

          Reply To Post


        14. by spottspidermunki
          (55 posts)

          10 years ago

          Re: Sax Lacquers

          i agree w/ john to a degree. so i guess that only makes me a little bit of an idiot. hehe. i am not convinced that a teeth guard makes a noticable change in the sound to the human ear. i'm sure its detectable to a machine, but to the human ear..i'm not sure. i'd be curious to hear a comparison. now i am sure it would make a difference to the player. it would sound differently just b/c ur teeth are directly on the mouthpiece, rather than being sheilded by the guard. that reduction of thickness would increase the "head noise" and make it sound noticably different to the player. the audience is what i'm not sure about. now about lacquer... silver-plate has alwayz seemed to me to "wear its tone on its sleeve" or play easily and produce all of its sound at the bell. it seems to create a very forefront sound, w/ power, but not a particular depth. it also seems to make the horn more aggressive. clear lacquer has always sounded deeper to me. sometimes not as easily played as silver, but it has a richer, deeper sound. those r the only 2 types i've tried. i've tried multiple horns, but only in those 2 types. its hard to get class-act horns out here in harvest, alabama. hope i was of some help, Joel

          Reply To Post AIM


        15. by chiamac
          (586 posts)

          10 years ago

          Re: Sax Lacquers

          teeth guards suck at first, but then you get used to them and the differnt feeling. Now, are you guys comparing finished on the SAME horns? or are these a bunch of differnt horns? I mean matt finishs could be used more on (for example) classical horns, and silver on jazz. (I just pulled that out of my ass, but it works for my point) Maybe the differnces are just based on what the horn is used for and it's make. I'm just putting that out there for discussion.

          Reply To Post Yahoo! AIM


        16. by spottspidermunki
          (55 posts)

          10 years ago

          Re: Sax Lacquers

          good point chiamac. i compared a yani solid silver tenor to a selmer series3 tenor in clear lacquer in that example. so alot of that silver aggressiveness is gonna be b/c its solid silver. i thought of that a few hours after i posted. jus another discussion point, aren't yani's typically aimed at classical? cuz the few i've tried are way more aggressive than the selmers i've tried, which is the reverse of the way i thought it should be. maybe i'm jus strange...who knows i tried: yani- T9937 solid silver, T991 clear. selmer- 1970 mark VI clear, 2001ish series3 clear. Joel

          Reply To Post AIM


        17. by sax_maniac
          (984 posts)

          10 years ago

          Re: Sax Lacquers

          As far as tooth guards changing sound, it's probably more in the player's head - literally. With one of those thick black Rovner cushions, you are slightly insulating your teeth and head from some of the vibrations that would resonate your noggin otherwise. I do notice the vibration difference when playing with or without a guard - but I haven't put my finger on any noticeable tone change. Someone standing 5 feet away is probably none the wiser, though I could se where there might be a noticeable difference if someone has tweaked their set-up for maximum edge or brightness. Again, I think you'd have to record yourself and listen to know if there's a diference. Or a trained ear standing nearby. I started using the pads about a year ago, and find it awkward to play without them now. But I played for 20 some years without one. My poor mouthpieces really showed it, but it's all what you're used to.

          Reply To Post


      2. by Spunky2sax75
        (75 posts)

        10 years ago

        Re: Sax Lacquers

        Matte finishes give it a darker tone. Silver gives it a "happier" tone, thats the only way I can think of to put it. From what I've heard, black gives it a "shitty" tone. Laquer gives it a normal, traditional tone.

        Reply To Post


        1. by sax_maniac
          (984 posts)

          10 years ago

          Re: Sax Lacquers

          I find that a rainbow lacquer job adds lots of color to the sound. Black lacquer makes the sound very dark. And gold lacquer makes the sound, oh - how to describe it... shiny. I used to play on an unlacquered horn and I was told that my sound was "naked". I'd like to try a white lacquered saxophone for that "virgin" sound eveyone talks about. Sheesh!

          Reply To Post


          1. by chiamac
            (586 posts)

            10 years ago

            Re: Sax Lacquers

            "And gold lacquer makes the sound, oh - how to describe it... shiny." Didn't you mean rich? "I'd like to try a white lacquered saxophone for that "virgin" sound eveyone talks about." Yeah, but I wouldn't push her too far...

            Reply To Post Yahoo! AIM