Saxophone Forum


by SaxMan
(559 posts)
10 years ago

Yamaha's method of quality control

Any dealers out there? If there are, you will probably have received a letter from yamaha by now, informing you that there is an auction for B and C stock, exclusively for dealers. There is yamahas method of quality control. We just got the letter today. Have you gotten one yet mark? Or how about at your shop Caleb?

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    1. by SaxMan
      (559 posts)

      10 years ago

      Re: Yamaha's method of quality control

      its proof of what I have been saying for the last 4 ys - that yamaha dumps their horns in our market to get rid of them.

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      1. by sax_maniac
        (984 posts)

        10 years ago

        Re: Yamaha's method of quality control

        Does B/C stock mean it has a scratch or ding on it or does it mean that the horn is a bad player? Surely Yamaha wouldn't want to send an "A" horn to a dealer with a scratch on it. And no matter how high their quality system is at Yamaha, shit happens and the merchandise will occasionally get damaged. Would you rather they melt down the horn and start over because it has a ding in it? I give Yamaha credit for being up front that the horns are B/C stock and not pushing them along with the rest of the bunch. Now that DOES leave room for scheisty dealers to sell these horns at a higher profit unless they pass along the savings to the customer, but I don't see the memo reflecting anything bad of Yamaha.

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        1. by SaxMan
          (559 posts)

          10 years ago

          Re: Yamaha's method of quality control

          No, B stock is a second rate horn, might still playable, but not very good. A C stock horn is basically a horn that the factory crapped out with severe problems that doesn't have chance of playing without a considerable amount of work. Selmer also sells B and C stock - to wwbw and a few other mass retailers to get rid of them - they don'tsell them to dealers.

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      2. by johnsonfromwisconsin
        (767 posts)

        10 years ago

        Re: Yamaha's method of quality control

        ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ its proof of what I have been saying for the last 4 years ... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Except it's nothing of the sort. It's more accurately wild conjecture fed by your bias.

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        1. by SaxMan
          (559 posts)

          10 years ago

          Re: Yamaha's method of quality control

          except its exactly that. Like I have always said, yamaha saves up all their dud horns, or even better than that, and dump them in our market.

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        2. by johnsonfromwisconsin
          (767 posts)

          10 years ago

          Re: Yamaha's method of quality control

          ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- except its exactly that. Like I have always said, yamaha saves up all their dud horns, or even better than that, and dump them in our market. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Except it isn't. I'll let you do some thinking as to why that is.

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        3. by sax_maniac
          (984 posts)

          10 years ago

          Re: Yamaha's method of quality control

          I wonder what percentage of Yamaha's saxophone sales are outside the U.S. Any guesses? I'd be suprised if it's more than 10-15%. I'mna go get some stir-fry for lunch. YUM!!! I hope it's not C-stock. Here kitty, kitty...

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        4. by johnsonfromwisconsin
          (767 posts)

          10 years ago

          Re: Yamaha's method of quality control

          -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To qualify what you're claiming in this thread you have to do the following: 1) define Yamaha B and C stock from an *authoritive* source. Does Yamaha playtest it's entire horn stock? If not, to state that A, B and C stock are a product of how well a horn plays is completely silly. This all is very important as it gives the basis for the type of horns Yamaha is giving up for auction. 2) How does this compare to it's competitors? Given that Selmer, Yanagisawa, et al undoubtfully have the same sort of errors occur in production, what do they do with these instruments? This has to be from an *authoritive* source as well. Shooting from the hip doesn't count! (-edited for content on 8/13/2004 10:01:22 PM.)

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        5. by chiamac
          (586 posts)

          10 years ago

          Re: Yamaha's method of quality control

          here are a few things I can say about yahama B stock after taking some quality classes in school. first this backs up their quality control, since with out that they wouldn't have any B/C stock to begin with. 2nd, I doubt they would play test horns. This would not only tie up money paying the people playing them, but it would also be very judgemental. I bet they look for dents, scratches, pads, maybe a leak test... most things that can be fixed but that they don't have time for at the factory. 3rd, I know a little bit about quality over there... for the most part it's tight*. I doubt yahama would keep really bad parts that would make a horn B/C stock. they would just throw them away and get them recycled. This is what most companies do. Why make bad horns out of something that could easily get replaced? (ie, bad parts that could be spotted and thrown before assembly) It not only saves time and resources, but makes more good product that can be sold. *at places that care about quality and are not just trying to put out crap product. I'm sure yahama to some degree cares about it's product and dosn't try to push bad parts though. 4th, since they are a reputable company I would be willing to bet they will stamp the horn with a letter or another number designating it as a B/C stock. This is what they do with golf balls, and a few other things that I can't remeber right now. Why would they want to put B/C horns on the market at a reducted price when they could compete with their A horns? It dosn't make much sense, so I'm sure there is a way to tell between the A/B/C horns. (unless someone can prove me wrong... actually I would like to see what they really do)

          Reply To Post Yahoo! AIM


        6. by sax_maniac
          (984 posts)

          10 years ago

          Re: Yamaha's method of quality control

          Chiamac - As someone who works for a manufacturing company (not as someone who lives by heresay)... You dead on, brudda. Acknowledging what's not top of the line means you know what IS top of the line and what isn't. A company with poor quality control would treat everything as equals.

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        7. by golferguy675
          (600 posts)

          10 years ago

          Re: Yamaha's method of quality control

          Saxman, you are severely exaggerating on the stock qualities. As previously stated, the B stock is something just with a scratch of small cosmetic flaw, still plays the same. The C stock, is a more major dent, or a key doesn't sit right, making maybe one or two notes not come out great. All horns sold are still playable . Just because you got some counter job at your local shop, doesn't mean you know everything. You are actually VERY misinformed, or as I see it, you are just basing you own theories on what you think you know. You should have figured out after 3 or 4 years on this bored, that IT'S NOT WORKING!!! (-edited for language and content on 8/13/2004 9:56:52 PM.)

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        8. by SaxMan
          (559 posts)

          10 years ago

          Re: Yamaha's method of quality control

          Go look at the definition of B and C stock at wwbw. if you knwo anything, you will see. Just cause an instrument plays doesn't mean its good.

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        9. by golferguy675
          (600 posts)

          10 years ago

          Re: Yamaha's method of quality control

          Oh, so you're getting your tech info from wwbw now? I won't say any more.

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        10. by chiamac
          (586 posts)

          10 years ago

          Re: Yamaha's method of quality control

          [Go look at the definition of B and C stock at wwbw. if you knwo anything, you will see. Just cause an instrument plays doesn't mean its good.] AAAHAHAHAHAHA I love it, saying shit about that site one day, then quoting it the next...

          Reply To Post Yahoo! AIM


        11. by sax_maniac
          (984 posts)

          10 years ago

          Re: Yamaha's method of quality control

          Yeah - you'd think by now he'd drop his alias out of embarassment. Though it would take all of about a week to figure out his new identity...

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        12. by GordonGekko
          (27 posts)

          9 years ago

          Re: Yamaha's method of quality control

          Hi Guys, I know this is months late as I am new to this forum. In the end, you have to purchase from a trustworthy dealer that stands behind the products they sell. As for quality, Selmer makes great instruments. However, I think the quality of many of them leaves a lot to be desired. I think it is amazing and really a shame that someone would have to play multiple horns of the exact same model to find a "good one." What does that say for consistency and quality? Not much I'm afraid. I work directly with Japanese manufacturers and French manufacturers for a living and I can tell you first hand, both make their share of mistakes. Although I would be surprised if a multinational conglomerate like Yamaha would really want to dump a bunch of crappy instruments in the market when they have spent countless millions designing and developing them. It makes terrible business sense- period.

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        13. by GordonGekko
          (27 posts)

          9 years ago

          Re: Yamaha's method of quality control

          One last point, if any professional horn from a major manufacturer were an exclusive item, there would be a very limited supply and a very limited number of dealers that sell them. Any of us can get a professional horn from Selmer, Yamaha, Yani, etc. at a great price with interest-free terms and a very liberal return policy. Like anything you purchase, you have to be smart about it. In the end, if the horn is lousy, send it back.

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