Yeah i agree however i also think that in certain manufacturers the finish makes an enourmous difference. While i always will and do prefer the vintage selmer, where finish makes no difference cuz they're all amazing horns, in my experience the cannonball horns are indescribably different from finish to finish, while horns like the keilworths are generally great performers in all finishes. Also to comment i do not ever reccomend ordering a horn without trying that exact one because most horns vary from instrument to instrument and it only makes sense to try out the horn that you will have for a while.

" vintage selmer, where finish makes no difference cuz they're all amazing horns" oh god, here we go again...

Here's my theory about plating and tone and how it relates to horn manufacture and marketing: Q) Does finish effect tone? How about alloy type? A) Somewhat. The sound you hear comming from a horn is due to the vibrating air column inside. I assert that the vibrating bore container induces a reverse-resonance back into the vibrating air column. Finish has some capacity to effect the freedom of the bore to vibrate but the makeup of the bore material itself has probably a lot more capacity to effect this reverse-resonance. Q) So you agree that finish/material makes that difference? A) No, not entirely. it is oneof the factors. Beyond the mouthpiece and reed, the PRIME factor is the shape and design of the bore as this effects the nature of the air column directly. The ability to effect the nature of the air column diminishes as you progress down the bore to the end of the instrument, thus the neck is the most vital part of the bore. Q) How much do you think finish/material effects the sound. A) I would guess that it would have a significant enough difference to be decerned by some, but not everyone. I think it may often be that plating and material are used mainly as an advertising effect to get you to *believe* that silver will give you resonance and clarity, or that black chrome or nickle will make you sound dark and thick, and that gold will give you great depth and sonority. Who knows, each of these materials may indeed contribute to that effect, but I wouldn't be surprised if horn manufacturers used platings and materials to implicitly reinforce what their design goals were with regards to tone.

Is it just me? Everytime I see a black saxophone I automatically assume it's one of those cheapo models being sold by the dozen on eBay.

well yes and no. Depends. A lot of the Selmer Serie II and Serie III are that really cheap looking dark black when in reality they are great horns. A lot of the Keilworths are also black, just a little more subdued and nickel-ized, also great horns. The Cannonballs redefine tacky, but they play really well. However if you see some crazy brand you've never heard of that sells for under 500 bucks you can assume it's a cheap way to suckerpunch impressionable students.

incidently, I played a "Stephanhauser" alto in nickle and black nickel plate this past week. It's ergonomics were strange and ackward. The cupped pearls weren't too much of a distraction, but the low Bb and C were a long streach for my smallish hands. The sound was rather appealing. It was dark, cold and a little hard, but projecting and not at all stuffy. Everything seemed to play in tune with my Vandoren AL3/Classiques (unofficially) and the timbre was amazingly consistant from top to bottom! The palm notes sounded like the upper stack, save for the pitch. It looked a little unconventional, but I was fairly shocked by the sound of the thing.

That is a rare and beautiful coincidence. I have never heard of Stephanhauser. Was it pro level? Cuz most of the time, the intermediate horns have the worst placing of the low keys, even worse than the beginner horns. What is ur main axe? How much do these Stephanhauser's go for?

here is the horn I tried: www.stephanhouser.com/SAS1500-BK.htm The lines between intermediates and professional instruments is highly subjective, and it's not clear what Stephanhouser lists this horn as. It really doesn't matter, either you like a horn, or you don't like it in varying degrees. I don't always agree with a companies marketing designation of their horns. The Stephan' I played was selling for $1400, but you could probably find it for a few hundred less. My main axe(s): Mid 60's Buescher 400 tenor, 1986 Yanagisawa 880 alto

Thanks for the input. I think I will go for the black nickel. I had a chance to play it and was thoroughly impressed. I have played the stephanhousers as well. They are nice horns. I happen to know from my uncle (music dealer) that they are intermediate horns. They have great timbre, and really good sound for an intermediate. The first time I played it (at jazz weekend) I thought it was a professional. I wouldn't pay much over 1100 though, because as he said. They have a bad low pinkey key placement and the cupped key's are rather uncomfotable. All in all a decent horn though, and really nice looking (not that that matters), I would definatly reccomend it (oh and by the way, you should go though Michigan Winds out of Lansing, they are good). Once again thanks for the help.