Saxophone Forum


by mosplace
(26 posts)
10 years ago

Conn Bari "The Liberty" from N.Y.Conn Co.Inc.

I have this old Bari here, but I cannot find anything abouth this model on the web. Here is a picture link: www.simplysax.mynetcologne.de/Connbari.htm If it won´t work from there, copy and paste it. What do you know about this model? Someone has relaquered it, it looks like the original finish was nickel plated. It has already the 1914 patent stamped on the back, but now rolled tone holes. Condition is pretty good, expept that it needs new pads. Is it worth to overhaul this sax?

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  1. by saxismyaxe
    (574 posts)

    10 years ago

    Re: Conn Bari "The Liberty" from N.Y.Conn Co.Inc.

    In my attempt to answer this question, I am going to think outloud for a moment, if you will, to aide anyone out there who may be able to follow the trail, and give you a more definitive answer. First, there are some conflicting details that make this horn a bit of a mystery, at least to me. It seems to display some characteristics of both the Wonder and the New wonder Series I horns, but the dates don't quite jive: Conn opened their New York Retail store in 1897, and relocated it elsewhere in 1902. I am assuming that the New York connotation is linked to this retail establishment. However, the fact that the horn has a single octave key, removable neck, and the Haynes 1914 patent date means that this horn dates to a much later manufacture date. Why the 1914 patent date stamp for rolled tone holes, with no rolled tone holes on this horn? The fact that it has no key pearls suggests to me that it is a late model Wonder (1915-1917) or very early New Wonder Series I (1917 but no later than 1919). The second choice is somewhat unlikely however, since the New Wonder was introduced in 1917, and Conn ceased to be Conn or Conn inc., and became Conn LTD at this time as well. I am of course assuming that this is engraved as you have mentioned, with both the "The Liberty" AND the " N.Y. CONN inc" names on the bell. Otherwise, I might have assumed this to be a Conn Stencil horn. Given all of the facts above, I am sticking with the late model Wonder theory, based on the evidence. Regarding the monetary value, the horn isn't worth a great deal, around $1,000 to$1,500 or so. However a repad and minor adjustment would certainly not be out of order, and other than the separate octave key/neck pip issue discussed in the previous thread, it isn't a bad early baritone.

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    1. by saxismyaxe
      (574 posts)

      10 years ago

      Re: Conn Bari "The Liberty" from N.Y.Conn Co.Inc.

      I had my early morning coffee, and after waking from my zombie state, realized my fatal error in judgement regarding my post above. Those reading that post will forgive me for the obvious error regarding the 1914 patent date and the Haynes patented method of DRAWN TONE HOLES, not Rolled tone holes. The two have nothing to do with each other, of course. The presence of ths date does still make the manufacture date of this horn after 1914 obviously, but has no bearing on the lack of rolled tone holes, other than the fact that most Conns had them after 1919. This board definitely needs to allow post submission editing of post! Ooops.

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      1. by sardonic_z
        (8 posts)

        10 years ago

        Re: Conn Bari "The Liberty" from N.Y.Conn Co.Inc.

        I don't know if this is also true for conns, but I know that selmer made horns specifically for sale directly to schools that had that gold painted-looking finish (they did this to try and make sure no one could get away with stealing them). Could be this is the same deal.

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        1. by saxismyaxe
          (574 posts)

          10 years ago

          Re: Conn Bari "The Liberty" from N.Y.Conn Co.Inc.

          No, not the same thing. The baritone in question has been refinished, and is in no way the original finish. The lacquer that you are speaking of is a much more modern Epoxy based finsh applied to Selmer Bundy and a few other student quality Selmer U.S.A. lines. The original finish options on the early Conns, such as the Liberty model discussed above were: Bare Brass, Nickel, Silverplate, and Goldplate.

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        2. by saxismyaxe
          (574 posts)

          10 years ago

          Re: Conn Bari "The Liberty" from N.Y.Conn Co.Inc.

          I should clarify my post a bit. I am saying that the Epoxy gold finish was unavailable before the 1970s as a finish on ANY horn, let alone a 20's Conn. However you are probably correct that the refinish lacquer job on this horn is that very Epoxy gold paint. I agree that the original horn's finish was probabely nickel plate.

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        3. by loudogskank
          (11 posts)

          10 years ago

          Re: Conn Bari "The Liberty" from N.Y.Conn Co.Inc.

          I thought I was the only one... I have a Liberty Tenor... These horns really are quite a mystery. From what i've been able to find they are based on the new wonder tooling but are actually an official model name from Conn. They are pretty good horns, I enjoy mine heartily.

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      2. by jimmysaxplayer
        (2 posts)

        10 years ago

        Re: Conn Bari "The Liberty" from N.Y.Conn Co.Inc.

        saxismyaxe: I just wanted to point out that your information about the patent is incorrect. It is not a patent for rolled tone holes, but a patent for the actual forming of the tone holes from the body material. Before this, the tone holes where soldered onto the body of the instrument.

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        1. by saxismyaxe
          (574 posts)

          10 years ago

          Re: Conn Bari "The Liberty" from N.Y.Conn Co.Inc.

          Yes Jimmy I know. You are a bit late. If you take a look at my second post, you will see that I corrected the info first posted in my sleep deprived state of mind right after I realized my slip. Cheers.

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