Ref 54 VS Mark VI | Forums | Saxophone.org

Search Forums scope search filter search Tips for better searching Saxophone Forum
Forum » General Discussions » Ref 54 VS Mark VI by Cannon (23 posts) 19 years ago Ref 54 VS Mark VI I've heard a lot of good things about the Selmer Reference 54 Horns, especially the alto. It's supposed to be an imitation of the Mk VI. How does it actually stack up against the legendary Mk VI in your guys opinions? Reply To Post [Report Abuse] Report Abuse Web Address * Your Name Your Email Address Comment
Replies
by Bays (2 posts) 19 years ago Re: Ref 54 VS Mark VI I have both horns. I have had a Mark VI for about 16 years. The sn is 232xxx, so it is one of the later models. I purchased a Ref 54 from Saxquest in November 2004. I requested a dark sound and they compared 3 horns and sent me the most darkly resonant horn. It has an incredible full sound. The intonation in the upper register is better than the Mark VI, as it is fuller and is absolutely dead on. Also, the low notes are a breeze. I still love the fact that I have a primo Mark VI, but my horn of choice ususlly is the Ref 54. I do agree with those who say, however, that you can find wide differences in any horn, be it a vintage Mark VI or a new Ref. Reply To Post by The_MarkVI (80 posts) 19 years ago Re: Ref 54 VS Mark VI Ive tried 3 ref's. They were all different from the next. the first one was really dark and I found it better for concert/classical. the 2nd one was just bad. and the 3rd was bright. i loved it but it didnt compare to the Mark VI. So i went with that Reply To Post by jamterry (573 posts) 19 years ago Re: Ref 54 VS Mark VI I have two Mark VI'snd they are set up by Paul Maslin in Chicago. I was referred to him by Fred Hemke, who studied with Marcel Mule. I played the 54 here in LA, and it was nice. I would love to see how it plays after Paul Maslin set it up!!!! If any of you guys live near Chicago, he is the go to guy for repairs ans set up. If you don't have either horn at present, it would be cheaper to go with the 54. A mark VI is a used horn, and condition is everything. Best of luck to you :) Reply To Post Yahoo! AIM ICQ by jazaddict (41 posts) 19 years ago Re: Ref 54 VS Mark VI I sold my Mark VI tenor to buy a Ref 54. I added a copper neck to the Ref 54. I spent a few days with both horns, recorded them in my home studio, mixed various reed/MPC setups. In a side-by-side comparison there were times when their sounds were identical. The Ref 54 plays like a DREAM in comparison. THe low end comes easily at ppp. The ergonimics are the same if a little easier on the spatula keys of the Ref. Best move I ever made. Reply To Post by connsaxman_jim (2336 posts) 19 years ago Re: Ref 54 VS Mark VI A Keilwerth SX90 puts a ref 54 to shame! Try one! Of course, I'm NOT a Selmer fan. Reply To Post Yahoo! by The_MarkVI (80 posts) 19 years ago Re: Ref 54 VS Mark VI jazaddict, wut set up do u use on ur ref? Reply To Post by jazaddict (41 posts) 19 years ago Re: Ref 54 VS Mark VI Sorry about the delay....I should probably check the "Notify of Responses" box, but I digress.. I use an SR Tech Pro that I had mildly "darkened" by he Mojo Mouthpiece guy. I use a synthetic Hahn medium or Legere Studio 2 1/4 . Reply To Post by YanagisawA-901 (312 posts) 19 years ago Re: Ref 54 VS Mark VI ill second jims take on the kielwerth.. they play amazing.. not a fan of the rolled tone holes however. .. but just with all the new horns, your paying for a name and pretty engravings.. you can play good on any horn.. i personally didnt like the reference.. i dont really like selmers that much either.. all well Reply To Post Yahoo! AIM ICQ by jbroad572 (46 posts) 19 years ago Re: Ref 54 VS Mark VI saxaddict you have email Reply To Post by mrd (137 posts) 19 years ago Re: Ref 54 VS Mark VI I have found locally that they have just sold the 54, but they have a Shadow and 82 Z so I am going to check them both out. It should be interesting to feel the difference in person. They did rave about the 54, but then, they never had the shadow before either. Reply To Post by jbroad572 (46 posts) 19 years ago Re: Ref 54 VS Mark VI Let us know how the shadow plays.... I promise that will be my next sax (tenor though). Reply To Post by semipro (17 posts) 19 years ago Re: Ref 54 VS Mark VI I just took delivery of my Ref. 54 Alto at the beginning of this month. I am not a Mark VI fan and was not a selmer fan until I played this horn. I played it along with the Keilworth mentioned above, the Yamaha 82Z, and 875EX, and the selmer III. Of the horns I played I ranked them in this order. 5. Keilworth - eveness of tone was not there. just too bright in the upper register. 4. Selmer III - Just too stuffy. 3. Yamaha 82Z - Too bright for my tastes and not very responsive in the low register. 2. Yamaha 875EX - All around good horn. Had it not been for the Ref. blowing my mind I would have saved some money and bought this horn. I played a Mark VI my sophomore year in college becuase my old Yamaha 52 was stolen. It was this experienced that soured me on Selmer. I didn't like key placement and about once a month it had to be adjusted. With the 52 I had before it, I took it in once a year just to have it check out. When I finally raised the money to replace my horn, (Selmer was the University's) I tried the SA-80, Selmer Omega and another YAS52. I got another 52 and played it for 17 years before replacing it with this horn. If you had asked me what horn to buy before I played this Ref. I would have said anything but Selmer. But if you have the coin BUY A REF. 54. You won't regret it. Sorry for the long post. Reply To Post by johnsonfromwisconsin (767 posts) 19 years ago Re: Ref 54 VS Mark VI the couple ref 54 altos I've played have been fantastic intruments. Not too bright but with a hint of brilliance, not stuffy or at all uneven. some will just plain play bad because of improper setup at the factory that hasn't been remedied by store technicians, though i've heard from several good techs that the References are a bit better than the series II or III in this regard. I've had this problem with mostly Keilwerths but almost never with the Yamahas or Yanagisawas I've played. Reply To Post by mrd (137 posts) 19 years ago Yanagisawa I just picked up a Prima Yanagisawa in pristine condition. It should arrive in a few days. Will let you know how it sounds, but I am told I will not put it down. We'll see. Reply To Post by mrd (137 posts) 19 years ago Opinions on the Yana/Yamaha/Keiwerth I have read everyones preferences above, and I now realize that there as many as there are people. The Yanagisawa that came in had good action. It was crisp and quick, however it was not the round dark sound I thought it would be. It didn't have the depth I expected. I then tried two new horns:: The Yamaha Z, and he sx90r. Yamaha: Of course, you can't complain about the keys/action/openess. It played well. It seemed to me, as I have heard others say, it didn't have quite the depth I wanted either. A little bright as I had heard. The Keilworth was a little better. A little more tone, more depth, and the action of course, was superb. However, and here's the key:: None of them blew me away. Maybe I'm looking for more than is able. They sold the 54, so I coudn't try it, but the tech told me, that is the horn he liked period. His second was Yamaha. Anyway, until I can try out the 54, I can't say I have any more answers than before. Maybe some of you can give me some input on this. Reply To Post by bmcguire (45 posts) 19 years ago Re: Opinions on the Yana/Yamaha/Keiwerth A reason for Selmer to charge more money for a horn! Wasn't the SeriesIII supposed to be the sax for the new millenium and supposed to have the same neck angle as the MKVI... I have played them and they're nice, but no MKVI. I actually prefer my two Super Action Serie II's to my MKVI (which is a good VI), the Serie III and the reference. If I was going to spend 4000 on a new alto, it would be the Yanagisawa with Solid Silver neck and Bell. That horn smokes, and at least they have all that Serling silver to justify the price! Reply To Post by mrd (137 posts) 19 years ago Necks BMCquire: I too have the Series II. Do you know if the Series II and the Mark VI have the same necks? There are some more open necks offered that I have viewed, one of which is the for VI, but since I have a II, I don't know if this would fit. I sure would like to know if you do. Thank you Reply To Post by mrd (137 posts) 19 years ago Oleg Neck for SA II I tried the Oleg neck on my II. For your information on this board, I did not like it. First, the position of the mouthpiece is uncomfortable as it angles up so that you have to have a longer neck strap, and it still is not correct. Also, even though it does project a little more, it produces more problems on intonation. I sold it and went back to the original Selmer neck. Reply To Post by saxyjeff (25 posts) 19 years ago Re: Oleg Neck for my VI Tenor I too tried the Oleg on my MK VI. My oringinal neck sounded good and is gold plated. After several months I went ahead and tried several mouthpieces (i was replacing my Strathon) and tried Claude Lakey's new pieces (awesome at about $150) and Olegs new pieces ($375....and pretty damn close). I went with the oleg and still use it. Everyone tells me the sound is more contemporary and still lush. Both the oleg and lakey's scream when necessary. Reply To Post by mrd (137 posts) 19 years ago SA80 II BMCQUIRE: I love my Series II also. I have tried a few more horns since, but other than wishing I had a Ref 54, I love the II. I have not been lucky enough to try the 54 yet, as my store sold the only one they had, but the II beats hands down the Keilwerth/Yamaha I tried at the store. Of course it is a matter of opinioin, but connsaxman Jim prefers the Keilwerth. I thought the one I played was just.. so.............. that's nice. Then I picked up the II, and it is warm, and full when I want it, and bright if I need it to be. You guys who keep knocking the Selmer must have a very subjectively negative prejudice. It still comes in on my top list. Reply To Post by mrd (137 posts) 19 years ago Keilwerth I tried the SX90r and the Yam z. Frankly, they were both good sounding horns, but nothing to go wild about. They played well. So, most decent horns play well. Their sound.. Yamaha was OK. That is all. The SX90.. Good, but again, I did not scream to buy either one. I have decided to buy a Ref 54. I have an SA80 II, and think it sounds far better than either the Yamaha or Keilwerth. I am mostly considering the Ref 54 because of the fingering options and closer keys. So, everyone has opinions. You still can't convince me that the other horns are any better than the Selmers. Perhaps not all, but my Series II I think is fabulous. The Ref should just be that much better. Reply To Post by selmer 4evr (309 posts) 19 years ago Re: Keilwerth Hey guys I don't get it -just picked up - took delivery of - had them test three - I would never pick a horn unless i could try ten to fifteen of the same type. I just bought a Series 3 in silver but I tried 6 silver plated and 8 gold laquered 2 Yamaha custom Zs in the store ( did not like the Z's but I only tried 2 ) narrowed it down to 3 horns brought them home for the weekend and made my choice. I bought it with the stipulation that I could select one from the next next batch of silvers coming in without penalty. here is a solution !!! make an appointment ,,,,go to the factory ( any) try around 100 horns over say 1 week buy one and take it home. The cost of the trip amortized over the next twenty years would be a pittance and you would see Tokyo or Paris in the meantime. It would also be a learning experience to speak with engineers and manufacturing folk. Reply To Post by mrd (137 posts) 19 years ago Ideally it would be wonderful Certainly if we all had the time, money, and lack of responsibility I'm sure we would all love doing exactly that, but alas, adult life, practicality, and yes, finances dictate directions perhaps deviant from our true desires. So, albeit I agree, I am looking at a used Ref 54 without trying it. Why, because that is my only choice at this time. But for all your effort, I am sure you have picked exactly what you wanted, and for that,,,,, We all wish you well and many years of pleasure. Reply To Post by selmer 4evr (309 posts) 19 years ago Re: Ideally it would be wonderful Hey I tried these in Montreal not Paris ---and we do have the time and the money but nostalgia is stopping us---do you see Sinta or Rousseau playing harmonics on a by"" cigar cutter"" it is only a quaestion of preferring a Lamborghini to a 70's muscle car . Let's face it we in North America are ultra-conservative . Instead of leading we have religated ourselves to following . Too Bad Reply To Post by connsaxman_jim (2336 posts) 19 years ago Re: Keilwerth Must be nice to have that much time on your hands to be able to do all that! Not to mention, the costs! BE PRACTICAL! Yes, it's a good idea to try a horn before you buy it. There is very little difference between new horns of the same model. Sure, there could be some adjustment issues out of the box, but most reputable music stores will check the horns when the unpack them. One should be particularly careful when buying a used horn; especially through ebay or any online forum where they are unable to see and play the horn before purchasing. I've been fortunate with ebay, but know many people who have not been so lucky. I would definately make sure that you are able to return the item if it is not exactly as depicted. Watch out for C Melody saxophones described as alto or tenor saxophones also, and MANY ebay sellers have absolutely no idea what they are selling, or rather it's playable or not. As a general rule, plan on putting about $300 into any instrument you purchase on ebay. you might get lucky and receive a sax that plays and needs little adjusting and repair, but often that is not the case, and sometimes the saxophones are missing keys, or have other playability issues that cannot easily be fixed! Reply To Post Yahoo! by mrd (137 posts) 19 years ago Quite Right I agree with you as well. Although my luck on ebay has been quite good. I did pick up a Series II for a reasonable price, and yes it needed some adjustment, but it is an outstanding horn. Frankly, I would choose the Series II over any other, except for the Reference. I have tried as others have above, the Yamahas, Keilwerths, and am not impressed. I tried the SA II and felt the difference. There is still a tone that they have that I like. Each to his own as they say, but once again, whatever you enjoy, is best for you and your peace. Reply To Post