Saxophone Forum


by mateo2kool
(1 post)
11 years ago

Cannonball Saxophones

I am not sure if a Cannonball is right for me. I am in the 9th grade and play my sax everyday. I have a junky student one and am eager to buy a new pro sax. I want to play the alto sax for the rest of my life so this is an important decision. I have looked at Selmers and Yanagisawas but they are so expensive. From reading about Cannonballs online it sounds like they are really good. (Some pros said online that they like it better than their Mark VI's). Tell me, what have you heard about the CB's and what do you think? Is it a sax tha is worth the money? They are so good-looking saxes that I'm afraid I'll be fooled by the look and not the quality results of sound! Any suggestions will help. Thanks, Matt

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  1. by saxplay
    (3 posts)

    11 years ago

    Re: Cannonball Saxophones

    suggestion, buy a Keilwerth SX90 or SX90R. You can't beat GERMAN brass. and you can find them on ebay for about $1600. Either that or look for an engraved Mark VII. They're one of the best kept secrets out there. I own both a Mark VI and a SX90 and I love them both. I recently sold a YAMAHA after I put a ding in the bell from simply laying it in the stand. Besides, the Yamaha's are too bright. As for the Cannonball, these horns have had mixed reviews for years, besides, they're UGLY! what's with all the Excaliber engraving? I am not sure Cannonball would approve? As for all the other brands on ebay Jupiter, Monique, Wexler. Don't do it. They are all made in china and they simply don't sound all that great.

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    1. by saxman1919
      (1 post)

      9 years ago

      Re: Cannonball Saxophones

      Unlike most Cannonball players, I can see both sides of the debate. I bought a C-ball curved soprano 2 years ago. I bought it because I'm a band director and my music store rep brought it out to my school for me to try. My Yamaha went on ebay the next day. He also gave me an increadible deal on the thing (a little over cost). I'm not sure I'd have felt as strongly about that horn if I'd paid another $400 for it. 3 months later I told him to order me the new CB Raven alto that was newly out. Again, I got a great deal on it, but something was different. I tried to like that horn. I used on gigs and in my lessons and in my teaching at school, but it was a lemon. I considered myself fortunate to get what I paid for it when I sold it a month later. Since then I've met people on both sides of the fence. People that have had the experience of my soprano and that of my lemon alto. Two of my private students and one of my school pupils have bought Cballs for themselves and I'm glad they did. I've met Tevis and discussed my concerns, but I gathered it was nothing he hadn't heard. I think Cannonball is a great company with a really good product. The concept and materials are great, the people who work there are stellar and I applaud innovation in this industry whenever I see it. But, if there is one thing lacking it seems to be quality control. In fairness though, I believe that problem exist with the big boys, too. I've played alot of crappy selmers, but I love my S-80 tenor. I used to own a sweeeeet yamaha soprano (yss-61) since then I've had a 62 and a 675 that sucked royally. I relapaced my Raven alto with a Yanagisawa and I love it. But, one of the best sounding altos of my career was a silver jupiter. Wish I still had it. I've tried two newer Jupiters since I sold it and they bit. Go figure. One thing that I've learned through my experiences, and that has been echoed throughout this thread, is that you've got to try each and every horn before you buy it. The internet is a great and terrible thing. Low-priced mail order horns, but you buy them sight-unseen. Be careful out there folks and please, please.....can't we all just get along?

      Reply To Post


    2. by justanothersaxguy
      (58 posts)

      9 years ago

      Re: Cannonball Saxophones

      just a small note - Jupiter saxes are NOT made in China. They are made in Taiwan, and there is a definite difference in quality level. In my opinion (based on my personal experiences with horns from these countries) the saxes 25 years ago coming out of Taiwan were equal to what comes out of China now. (Though I don't know all of what comes out of China, but only some of them - the cheaper ones). I had an old (ie., 1970's) Jupiter, and the new ones are DEFINITELY better - better intonation, and harder brass. And for what it's worth, any Jupiters I've played seem to be particularly good at popping out low notes (and generally harder to get a good altissimo, too. Don't know if one necessarily goes hand-in-hand with the other.)

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  2. by daveed717
    (1 post)

    11 years ago

    Re: Cannonball Saxophones

    I agree with the advice about ebay, and the internet in general... you MUST play a saxophone before buying one. As to the Cannonballs, there is a HUGE difference between their first horns, and the Big Bell Global Series that are more recent. They are very solid horns, and sound big, expressive and fantastic. In fact, I am selling my Japanese Martin Tenor in order to buy a new Cannonball Big Bell. You really have to hear it to believe it. Buy my Martin! Only $800!

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  3. by jason_way
    (1 post)

    11 years ago

    Re: Cannonball Saxophones

    hey,man.I have never played cannonball horns.But I am very sure cannonball is not a good choice 4 u.why don't u try some conns or kings?I mean their old horns.Don't count on their new ones,they suck. And,I think you can try a Keilwerth.Trust me,it will be the best horn for you to play.And,you will love the sound.It's really a fantastic horn. And by the way,I wanna say something about jupiters. They are good ones.Those horns made in China are not that bad as they say.They just don't know about them.Some of my frieds play jupiters,and they are just good.U know something,u just need a horn for u,not the best.

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    1. by underdog
      (1 post)

      11 years ago

      Re: Cannonball Saxophones

      You are so wrong!! Cannonballs are really great. The new Big Bell is simply the best horn I have ever played. The tone is huge and resonant. The scale is in tune like no other horn I've played. Gerald Albright plays one. What more do I need to say.

      Reply To Post


      1. by golferguy675
        (600 posts)

        11 years ago

        Re: Cannonball Saxophones

        Yeah, well come back in 6 months and let us know what you think then. You in for an unpleasent surprise.

        Reply To Post


    2. by brylloyd
      (2 posts)

      9 years ago

      Re: Cannonball Saxophones

      There are several posts here that mention the best way to choose a new sax........GO TRY IT YOURSELF! I own a Yamaha 62S tenor and a Cannonball Silver curved soprano and I love both of them. I've tried almost every horn out there that I can get my hands on and I think I own the best horns that work for me. The durability of Cannonballs seems to be an issue with some people here but it seems to me if you take care of any horn, it will last a long time. If some student tosses it around, then I don't care what horn it is, it will come apart! I've never had a single issue with my Cannonball soprano and it still looks better than my Yamaha after three years of constant use. If there is any problem with the horn, Cannonball's customer service seems to be substantially better than any other manufacturer I 've heard of. My brother and I have both taught many students over the years and both of us hated the Cannonballs we played 5 or 6 years ago. Didn't touch them again until they came out with the Big Bell Series. DRASTICALLY different horn than the old ones. I was blown away by the difference! The only reason I don't buy a Cannonball Tenor is that I already have a perfectly good horn in my Yamaha. Did anyone else notice that the price of Yamaha's horns was cut almost in half last year? Why do you think? A local music store rep who deals with the different manufacturers said that the Yamaha rep told him it was beacuse Cannonball was killing them! I agree that the Cannonballs are not that much better than any other top of the line horns but they have always been a LOT cheaper than the big boys. Apparently Yamaha understands that and so, adjusted their prices. Now it's not such a clear cut choice for me. Selmer might have to get in on this soon as well. Selmers have never been on my list of potential horns because they are so blasted expensive! I have played lots of them but I can't even consider them. Any manufacturer that reduces the cost of playing our beloved saxophones needs to be praised, not torn down becasue they're the new guy working out some bugs. At least Cannonball has been improving their horns....moving uphill instead of ruining a good thing like Selmer has since the Mark VI!

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    3. by franco_01
      (1 post)

      11 years ago

      Re: Cannonball Saxophones

      sorry to interrupt but i just want to ask if any body knows of an organization that will help me get a sax for free because i don't have the money to afford not even the cheapest one!!!!!

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    4. by dfwsaxdude
      (8 posts)

      9 years ago

      Re: Cannonball Saxophones

      The best advice anyone can offer is to actually TRY the Cannonball - try SEVERAL Cannonballs, and then decide. So many posters have wisely noted that playing the instrument will tell you all you need to know. I own two CB altos and a CB tenor, and they're all great. I was a Selmer man for over 20 years, and I played the Keilwerth SX90R for a couple of years. They're both great axes, but for me - the Cannonball is top of the game! For the CB Naysayers: you are certainly entitled to your opinions, but please reserve judgment until you've actually tried out a couple. I've not played an earlier CB and I can understand that their first horns may have been inferior or even substandard. But the R&D team has obviously made great strides over the years. Just get on the CB website and see who's playing these horns - talk about endorsments! My humble opinion - best wishes and happy hunting!

      Reply To Post Yahoo!


    5. by zwaggio
      (3 posts)

      11 years ago

      Re: Cannonball Saxophones

      It seems that every negative post re: Cannonballs placed here are responses to older, pre Big Bell, models. I own both the Big Bell Alto and a very nice Mark IV. Here's the difference that I expericence: The Mark has a "wamer" and more flexible sound. The sound of the CB is a little "harder" sounding and not as flexible but still a very nice 'big' sax sound - not harsh. It just doesn't "talk" like the Selmer. The CB is definately better in tune ( excellent intonation!) and is much easier to hit the altissimos on. The action on my Mark is on the low side and very fast, as I like it. I've had the action on the CB lowered - but not too much. I can't fly on it as fast as on the Mark, but maybe the fact that I've played the Mark for 15 yrs. now is the major factor. Don't be put off by the overly negative post on the CB's. There either talking about older horns from this company - or their just talking from prejudice, not experience. Hope that helps.

      Reply To Post


      1. by golferguy675
        (600 posts)

        11 years ago

        Re: Cannonball Saxophones

        Sorry, but no. I bought a new one and it is waaay to bright and sticks out and has a very harsh tone. I would play that for a band or solo for money!

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        1. by golferguy675
          (600 posts)

          11 years ago

          Re: Cannonball Saxophones

          TYPO~I MEANT WOULDN'T

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      2. by soulmasta
        (4 posts)

        8 years ago

        Re: Cannonball Saxophones

        im a senior in high school and from my experience playing a old saxophone thats in good shape is the way to go then your junior or senior get a brand new sax.

        Reply To Post


      3. by YZRider831
        (1 post)

        7 years ago

        Re: Cannonball Saxophones

        Hi i'm in the 9th grade and play alto saxophone I can tell you all I know because I play a cannonball exculabular alto sax in band. If your looking at a pro model, don't get one because it's a wast of your parents money or yours. If you buy any saxophone by the cannonball excabular student model because they look like pure sex. The cannonball line is the best for sure and you will get a lot of attention from other students. The cannonballs sound the best out of all of the other saxophones trust me you will be blown away by the sound that comes out of that piece of metal. So if your looking at buying a saxophone look no further then cannonballs line up.

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      4. by markg
        (3 posts)

        11 years ago

        Re: Cannonball Saxophones

        I don't know a whole lot about Cannonball. That is true that the Selmers and Yanagisawas are really expensive, but the best idea I can come up with is EBay. My sister bought a Wexler soprano sax for $300. I had never even heard of Wexler, but after playing it I found that it is one of the best saxes I have ever played. I would shop on EBay and do research on any saxes you find that look like good deals. Check out this Jupiter: cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2515222696&category=16232 Or a vintage 1924 silver Buescher: cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2516628701&category=16232 Or a 1914 Conn (although I'm not a big Conn fan myself): cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2516554043&category=16232 Or do some checking yourself. Look for prices with no reserves. Good luck!

        Reply To Post ICQ


      5. by martinj9
        (3 posts)

        11 years ago

        Re: Cannonball Saxophones

        I have never played a Cannonball saxophone, therefore, I can not give you an opinion on that, however, if you have any doubts, just go ahead and test one. My advice is this: 1. If you want to make sure that you make the right choice, be patient and save money, so when the time comes you can buy the right saxophone for you. 2. Wherever your choice is, test the saxophone before you buy it. 3. Concentrate on well known brands such as Selmer, Yanagisawa, and Yamaha. I am sure you will find the right saxohone among this brands. I started out with a YAS23, then 4 years later I switched to a Yanagisawa T991 tenor, and I don't regret my decicion. If you are serious about playing the sax, a good quality sax is going to make a big difference, simply because you'll derive more pleasure out playing it, therefore, you'll play more and will see better results. Remember, you'll find all sorts of opinions on this forum, however, your decision must be based on your on experience. Good Luck ! ! !

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        1. by golferguy675
          (600 posts)

          11 years ago

          Re: Cannonball Saxophones

          NONONONONONOONONO!!!! That is what they want you to do!!!!! They are great at first and make you want to buy them, then you realize later they are way to bright and harsh and the fall apart!!!! and if you dont listen and get one, dont get silver or gold. THe finish falls off the gold, and the silver wears right off.

          Reply To Post


      6. by GreenSauce
        (1 post)

        11 years ago

        Re: Cannonball Saxophones

        I'm not a pro, but I would definitely recommend against buying a cannonball. I'm a college student and while in high school a friend of mine bought a cannonball. Their quality is horrible. Keys fell off, the lacquer started flaking off all over the place after three years, it is just not a quality horn. Not worth the money. If my memory serves me correctly they cost around 2 grand (but that was a tenor) and you can get a much better horn for the money. Look for vintage conns or kings on ebay (not too old). But trust me when I say that a cannonball is not a good investment, there's a 1969 king super 20 on ebay right now for around $1000 that would kill any cannonball. Cannonball Adderly played a super 20, albeit an earlier one. Look around, if you have the money for a cannonball you have the money for something far better. And just for the record, anyone who would say a cannonball is beter than a Mark VI is out of their mind.

        Reply To Post


      7. by Saxrasta
        (2 posts)

        11 years ago

        Re: Cannonball Saxophones

        Matt, Aside from everything else that has been said, I can tell you this (if you haven't already bought a horn). Find a good used horn!!! I know it sounds a bit morbid, but when an old sax player passes away, his wife (or family members) usually will sell his horn. Many times these people selling really don't know the value of it, or don't really care about getting lots of cash out of it. This is the type of situation where you can find some of the best deals. MAKE SURE YOU PLAY THE HORN FIRST (if at all possible)!!! Now certainly I'd take something like an old balanced action even if I couldn't try it first. I know with a horn like that I could get it working well. Most horns outlive their owners! Good Luck!

        Reply To Post


      8. by will8964
        (1 post)

        11 years ago

        Re: Cannonball Saxophones

        well, why not. Here's my two cents. Bright or dark, most horns are considerably different in tone. The most important thing is intonation. Take a tuner and check it out before buying. The second most important thing, is to match the right mouthpiece to the horn, it's all in the baffle and chamber. I work on mouthpieces, by doing this, I have put many mouthpieces on many horns. If you've ever put a link 7* on a Bundy tenor, you know it doesn't work, period, at least not with a newer model link. Now, take that same link and build up the baffle with epoxy and get the facing right, and you've got pure gold. I can make a Bundy II sound better that most College cats playing on a Mark VI. I can take a Yamaha 23 and make you feel a bit foolish for spending $300 to $400 for a mouthpiece and four to five grand on a horn. Keep in mind, most high dolor mouthpieces will play well on the VI or a Yamaha. That's what they were designed for. It takes getting someone willing to send you some mouthpieces and working with you to find a match. Better yet, go in person and play as many as you can. There is nothing more exiting for a sax player to find that special mouthpiece that fits like a glove. This is what it takes to keep a horn forever. So, what I'm saying, don't get so hung up on finding "The Horn", but "The Match".

        Reply To Post


      9. by Spank
        (4 posts)

        11 years ago

        Re: Cannonball Saxophones

        I too have been looking at the Mad Meg( what the hell is that name all about?) Cannonball tenor. I play a Guardala B&S DG-401 Pro Custom alto. As far as myself or my teacher ( a world-famous pro ) are concerned - there is is no finer horn in the world than the MODERN/NEW B&S product ( 2001-present ). As my teacher states : "It's built like a tank, and sounds incredible. I t also has the perfect key arrangement" Yes, they are pricey - but they are worth it. That being said, does anyone know if Cannonball and/or Unison Goodson saxes compare/exceed MODERN B&S in quality, features and playability ???? Thanks!!

        Reply To Post


      10. by OLDSAX
        (7 posts)

        11 years ago

        Re: Cannonball Saxophones

        I doubt that Cannonball saxes are better than top of the line Selmers although the later MK VI's weren't as good as the earlier ones. Yet, I've talked to some pros who say that CB's are pretty good. You can ask for advice here and all you'll get is everyone's own opinion. I'm partial to Selmer.If you really want to see if they are any good, then you'll just have to go to your local dealer or dealers,and test one. But don't just test the CB, try several different ones in your price range. If you can't afford one for four or five grand then don't bother to play'em. You'll have to do the leg work and make your own judgement. No pro would take another's word for what is best for them.

        Reply To Post


      11. by saxplay
        (3 posts)

        11 years ago

        Re: Cannonball Saxophones

        be clear, Cannonball horns are very good Tiawan made horns, that's all. They are over priced and in two-three years you are going to wish you had a Selmer, Yani, Yamaha Z or Keilwerth. With the prices these days the best buy out there is an early Selmer Mark VII. $1,200 will by you a ver nice unit that will appreciate over time. Your Cannonball won't

        Reply To Post


      12. by Balanced
        (4 posts)

        11 years ago

        Re: Cannonball Saxophones

        1)Decide how much you can spend. 2)Try all the horns you can find in that range. 3)Ebay can be very dangerous. A horn that looks great in a picture can turn out to be a real lemon. Don't buy it unless you can try it first. About quality - Quality of materials and workmanship is very important to the logevity of the instrument. The problem is that is hard to detect defects before they occur. In general stay with the brand which have the best reputations for quality - Yamaha, Yanagisawa, Keilwerth, and Selmer Paris (not to be confused with Selmer USA) are the top names. Jupiter is an up and coming maker which makes a really fine horn for the money (look for the silver model). Yamaha would be your best bet I think because they are the only top maker which makes a horn in all price ranges. The model 52 (now called the 475) is a great horn for someone at your level. Remember, you are embarked on a life long journey, your ear is always developing, this will not be your last saxophone if you stay on the musicians path. Also remember, you are the sound of your saxophone, it comes from your lips, mouth, lungs and soul. Don't be fooled that a particular piece of brass will make you sound a certain way. Find a good mouthpiece and reed combination that alows you to produce the sound you want with the least amount of effort and keep your horn in good repair. Play,play,play. Peace.

        Reply To Post


        1. by golferguy675
          (600 posts)

          11 years ago

          Re: Cannonball Saxophones

          Cannonball Die!!!!!!!!!!

          Reply To Post


        2. by TheChristianSax
          (6 posts)

          11 years ago

          Re: Cannonball Saxophones

          I second that post. Great advice!!! Sincerely, Matt

          Reply To Post


          1. by OLDSAX
            (7 posts)

            11 years ago

            Re: Cannonball Saxophones

            Cannonball has a web site. The husband and wife owners are from Utah. But the horns are manufactured in a factory located in Taiwan.

            Reply To Post


            1. by safesax98
              (1 post)

              11 years ago

              Re: Cannonball Saxophones

              I have a cannon ball alto in my store,the laquer is in really bad shape. The horn is about 3 years old but looks much older..Ive played the horn and it is an ok entry level horn,but way over priced.

              Reply To Post


            2. by SaxMan
              (559 posts)

              11 years ago

              Re: Cannonball Saxophones

              They are about the worst saxes I have ever seen. They have rough tone holes which kill pads quite fast, as said up there, keys fall of quite often, I saw one that was played for 4 years once, and it was totally bare, no laquer at all. the key rods do not necessarily run straight, which puts quite a bit of torque on the keys, the pad cups are far too small, the keyposts are way to small, and thus the keys falling off. They have terrible intonation, and a terrible sound. And in regards to those professionals, they were paid to say that, it happens quite often with new companies, get a pro to say they are good to get buisness. wouldnt you say that if you were paid? I owuld for how much I need money right now.

              Reply To Post


            3. by TheChristianSax
              (6 posts)

              11 years ago

              Re: Cannonball Saxophones

              I thought that I would jump in on this, since I have finally played one. The model that I just played was the Big Bell model. The bell is silver, the body gold, and the keys are all gold. It came with two necks, one silver, the other gold. The case is really high quality. As for the horn itself, I found it to be very well constructed with ribbed posts and very heavy brass. The keywork felt very comfortable and natural. Most importantly, the response was INCREDIBLE. The horn took anything that was put into it. Altissimo popped out effortlessly. I was very impressed. Now, for the person who owns it. He is a professor of music, graduate of the University of North Texas jazz program, and former member of the One O'clock lab band. He told me, before I asked, that it was better than his Mark VI. He would not stop talking about how great the horn was. He is now a Cannonball artist, but contrary to some posts here, did have to pay for the horn. Though it was a reduced cost, the horn was still in the $2000 range. I admit that I was a bit skeptical about some people saying that the Cannonball is a better horn than the MarkVI, but I am now convinced it is a great horn!! Personal preference will still be a deciding factor, but I think that Cannonball is going in a direction that other manufacturers have not even tried. If you get your hands on one, you'll know what I mean. Sincerely, Matt

              Reply To Post


            4. by Conn-man
              (11 posts)

              11 years ago

              Re: Cannonball Saxophones

              Thank you Matt. It's good to hear an opinion from someone who's actually played a Cannonball. I have a Cannonball Big Bell tenor I am selling. (Why? Because I have 8 or 10 saxes and I need to make some room in my house, plus I am playing alto exclusively nowadays) I have found it to be an excellent horn. The craftsmanship and keywork are great. I was playing a friend's Mark VI last weekend and was struck by how awkward the VI seems compared to the Cannonball. (Can you believe it, someone calling a Mark VI awkward?) The Cannonball's keywork is more like the Reference 54, which is Selmer's next generation sxophone. The Cannonball's action is smooth and very fast and very comfortable. It makes you want to play uptempo just to feel those keys move! Construction wise, the Cannonball is 100% modern. It takes the best of all previous saxes, plus a few new items, like double bracing for the bell keys. Rib and post construction, blue steel springs...if you just pick up a Cannonball you can feel that it is one solid horn. My Cannonball is a Mad Meg, so the body is unlacquered. It's one two years old so it is still a nice brassy color. The keys are lacquered and show no signs of coming off. I've never heard any Cannonball owners say the lacquer has fallen off their horns. And no, the keys aren't falling off either. Of course, the most important thing is the sound. Big. Boomy. I have had several people, some of them fellow sax players, comment on how big my sound is on the Cannonball. But the sound is smooth and modern also. It plays just as well in a classical setting (I have doubled bassoon parts on this horn and it sounded great) as it does in Jazz. Be it ballads or blues, the Cannonball can hang in there. And yes, I can clearly hear and feel the difference between the two necks. I used the unlacquered neck for classical and the lacquered neck for jazz. Cannonballs do not sound like Mark VI's, and that throws people off in my opinion. They're expecting a mark VI. Cannonballs have a bigger more modern sound. Kind of like a Conn but updated for the 21st century. So once again I agree with Matt, Cannonball is going in a direction that other manufacturers haven't even tried--away from Selmer! I recently was at a Maynard Furgesson concert. His alto player played on a Cannonball. Blew me away. And if a single alto can play with Maynard's screaming brass section, you know that is a horn that has some "stuff." So my opinion is that you won't go wrong with a Cannonball, if that's what you choose. They are great horns, well made, great sound, and will easily take you to the next level, or help your pro career. Of course, Keilwerth and Yanigasawa also make fine horns too, and if those are your choices then you are one lucky kid. Yeah, I have misgivings about selling my Cannonball, but I ain't playing it enough and hopefully it will go to a good home. And hey, maybe I can get a Cannonball Alto one of these days! And just for the record, I am not and never have been a Cannonball endorsed artist. I'm just a joe schmoe who likes playing and knows a good sax when he hears it.

              Reply To Post


            5. by Balanced
              (4 posts)

              11 years ago

              Re: Cannonball Saxophones

              Cannonball saxophones are by and large a first series Selmer Super Action 80 copy with an additional brace in the middle of the horn and recently enlarged bell flair. (The sopranos are Yanagisawa copies.) They are mass produced in tiawan by a couple different small factories. The quality of workmanship is not great but has improved over the last serveral years. They are good horns for the money but don't be fooled by the fancy finishes - they are not made with near the precision of a Selmer Paris, Yamaha or Yanagisawa. This is what I have found after playing and scrutinizing several dozen of them over the last few years - for what its worth. Peace, Eric

              Reply To Post


            6. by Saxmaniac2010
              (1 post)

              2 years ago

              Re: Cannonball Saxophones

              I couldn't agree more.  I have 2 CB tenors, Global and Stone Series Big Bells.  My Yammy's in the closet and sold my MKVI

              Reply To Post


            7. by dct
              (2 posts)

              11 years ago

              Re: Cannonball Saxophones

              I'm a Mark VI alto lover (for 25 years) but my Big Bell Cannonball tenor is just as worthy of praise. I don't make a living playing but do perform every week. It does the job every bit as well as my alto. At some point in the future I will replace the Mark VI with a big bell Alto.

              Reply To Post


            8. by drprince
              (2 posts)

              11 years ago

              Re: Cannonball Saxophones

              I'm glad to see some posts by people that have actually played or own a Cannonball. All you have to do is try one and you will be sold. I am 55 years old and have played many brands over the years and have found Cannonball to be in there with the best of them. That's why my most recent Tenor, the one I have played almost daily for the last year, is a Cannonball Big Bell Global Tenor. It looks great and sounds great. It has held up under constant use and nothing has flaked off, dented or fallen off. The intonation is great and its response is quick. It is simply a quality instrument. In fact, an acquaintance is a Yamaha performing artist and when I went to one of his performances this week, he was playing a Cball Tenor! Dennis

              Reply To Post


            9. by Sheryl Laukat
              (6 posts)

              11 years ago

              Re: Cannonball Saxophones

              Sheryl Laukat here from Cannonball Saxophones. To set the record straight, we don't pay anyone to say good things about our saxophones. We've made it a high priority to use the best components along with quality workmanship. Customer satisfaction is very important to us.

              Reply To Post


            10. by Minatar12
              (3 posts)

              11 years ago

              Re: Cannonball Saxophones

              My horn is a Cannonball Global Big Bell Alto Sax. I love it. Like others have said, you get a really big, full, rich sound, and the response is excellent. Altissimo notes come really easy, and I find my sax is great for ballads, hard bop and also makes a great lead alto in a big band. Its NOT as good for funk and things like that...the sound isn't cutting and bright enough. But all in all, I love my cannonball. I have a friend who owns a Big Bell tenor, and he feels the same way. These are quality horns. Keep in mind that Yanagisawa, Yahama and Selmer make great horns too, but I would deffinitely put Cannonball Big Bells in that company, if slightly lower then maybe a Yamaha Custom or a Selmer Series III. So in my opinion, its a great horn to play on. People who say otherwise, like Saxman, seem to me just to be Selmer bigots.

              Reply To Post AIM


            11. by Sheryl Laukat
              (6 posts)

              11 years ago

              Re: Cannonball Saxophones

              Minitar12, I'm glad you're liking your Cannonball Big Bell Global Series Alto. We can make the saxophone as bright and cutting as anyone would ever need if we know ahead of time. All of the Cannonball saxophones sound slightly different, as we do hand work on them in the end. Some will be more bright and cutting than others and usually there is noticible difference between the two necks that come standard with the horn. One is usually brighter than the other is. Sheryl Laukat, C.E.O. Cannonball Saxophones

              Reply To Post


            12. by dct
              (2 posts)

              11 years ago

              Re: Cannonball Saxophones

              I'm mouthpiece hunting. I need a mouthpiece to use in a rhythm and blues band. I'm playing the cannonball big bell tenor. Anyone have suggestions?

              Reply To Post


            13. by drprince
              (2 posts)

              11 years ago

              Re: Cannonball Saxophones

              I am using a Jody Jazz ESP metal mpc on my Cball Tenor. I like it better than a lot of other metals because it is not as bright. I have found some metal mpcs almost sound "tinny" (on my Yanagisawa Alto as well), but the JJ doesn't. Jody Jazz is a modified Runyon. You can also get a "spoiler" insert with both brands that boosts the volume, which is especially good if you play in a rock band or other group where you need a little extra sound to be heard over electric guitars or keyboards. You can find Jody Jazz on their own web site (www.jodyjazz.com). They are also being sold now on www.woodwindbrasswind.com. They are not cheap, but they are worth the price...

              Reply To Post


            14. by JKDMed
              (1 post)

              11 years ago

              Re: Cannonball Saxophones

              What's the big deal with Cannonball? I bought a silver-plated curved soprano and it's ok. Can't tell much of an intonation difference between it and my student Jupiter. Then again, both were around the same price. CBall smells like saxophone.com with better publicity. Maybe I should have bought a Yani if I wanted to see a dramatic intonation difference.

              Reply To Post


            15. by spottspidermunki
              (55 posts)

              11 years ago

              Re: Cannonball Saxophones

              hey guys, i'm new to the forum, but i figure i might as well jump in. I'm a junior in hs, and will be in the market for a beater tenor sax for college marching band soon. i was wondering if cannonball's would be a good option.I'm looking for good projection, nice tone(doesn't have to be superior), and able to withstand marching abuse. it doesn't have to have a superior tone, b/c i already own a selmer series 3 tenor. anywayz, i was jus wonderin what u guys thought. thanx in advance. Joel

              Reply To Post AIM


            16. by SaxMan
              (559 posts)

              11 years ago

              Re: Cannonball Saxophones

              I would definately recomend one for marching, I was utterly disappointed when I played one, I was expecting something that would make me want to give up my series III, if anything, it made me hold my III tighter. It was so loud, the tone lacked character, and was kind of dull, pretty bright too. But for marching, it would be fantastic. Get some jim schmidt pads and have him put some gold noyaks on it, and the thing would SCREAM. I just put some jim schmidt pads with gold noyaks on my AS300, and that thing screams, put them in for pep band. I use a meyer 7 that I had my tech put a stpe baffle in, sounds disgusting, but I can cover the whole entire band if I want to, what more could you ask for? (94 people, 14 trumpets, 6 bones.) I use number 5 rico royals on it, and they still are not enough to play normally, and with a mouthpiece like that, you cna blow it as hard as you want and it will still sound like a sax, not a duck, although it sounds like your sax is doing to fall apart. heh, last game I blew a reed through the window, I wanted to show my tech this, so I just switched pieces instead of changing reeds. he said it was the most incredible thing he had ever seen in his entire life. Sorry, kind of got on a tangent there, The cannonball is a tought horn, or tough looking at least. You might want to consider a different finish than nickel though, scratches will stick out like a soar thumb.

              Reply To Post


            17. by Sheryl Laukat
              (6 posts)

              10 years ago

              Addressing concerns

              Sheryl Laukat here from Cannonball, hopefully alive for many years. I'd like to address your concerns: 1. SILVER: Since lacquer and silver repel each other, we do not put lacquer on top of our silver plating. We plate with two dips of 100% pure silver with .005 thousandths each dip for a total of .01 thousandths of silver. Silver tarnishes. It also wears off with high acidity or by using a chemically treated cloth. Our warranty is for one year parts and labor. Our warranty for finishes is much like other manufacturers in the industry. No one warrants something which is out of their control (acidity, humidity, etc.) Even so, we will be willing to work with you if you would like to contact your dealer. Concerning the sound of silver, yes it does tend to be more bright especially with some mouthpiece set-ups and players. Some players will play on nothing but silver because they sound the best on it. Other players sound better on another finish. One of the reasons we furnish two necks with the saxophone is to give you an option of sounding less bright if you choose. Perhaps the lacquer neck that comes with the horn can help accomplish this. 2. BLACK LACQUER: Our black horns are not black lacquer. We use black anodized nickel plating, which adheres to the brass, becoming one with it. We've had great success with the black nickel - it's a tough finish. The tone is brilliant without being too bright. It also seems to project the sound to the back of the room. With some players and horns, the black nickel sounds darker. 3. MOUTHPIECE: Although Eddie Daniels thinks our mouthpieces are the best on the market, they are not going to work for every player. There is a high personal preference range here. Our mouthpieces are hard rubber, so we put the right amount of cork on our necks to fit most hard rubber mouthpieces. If a player wants to play a metal mouthpiece(usually a smaller inside radius), he or she should carefully sand the cork slightly so the metal mouthpiece will fit. If our mouthpieces don't fit on other saxophones, it is because the cork has been sanded down to fit a smaller radius mouthpiece. 4. WHERE OUR SAXOPHONES ARE MADE: We've been open that our saxophones are made in Taiwan. It's on our web site. We've tried to be clear that we are highly involved with the production and that we also do many things to the horns here in Utah before they go out the door. I invite you to contact your dealer. Your satisfaction is important to us.

              Reply To Post


            18. by golferguy675
              (600 posts)

              10 years ago

              Re: Addressing concerns

              Those mouthpieces are crap. They didn't even fit on my other saxes. And that silver was not well applied. It wore off in 3 months. And dont try to tell me it was tarnish, or acidity or humidity, or any of that bull crap.

              Reply To Post


            19. by golferguy675
              (600 posts)

              11 years ago

              Re: Cannonball Saxophones

              Hey Saxman, what set of pads would you recommend for a darker, but edgy jazz sound. I'm already there with my current mouthpiece, reed, ligature setup(otto link piece, java reeds, and bonade inverted ligature,) but I haven't looked into different types of pads much. I've got a slightly enhanced set of the ones that are for the sax. Man, i love that ligature. It has little brass notches so the ligature never touches the side of the reed. It brightens it up a little, but I love it.

              Reply To Post


            20. by SaxMan
              (559 posts)

              10 years ago

              Re: Cannonball Saxophones

              Your not for real right?

              Reply To Post


            21. by golferguy675
              (600 posts)

              11 years ago

              Re: Cannonball Saxophones

              Yeah, well bright, annoying, obnoxious, and cutting isn't always the best thing. Actually, it about never is. Oh, buy me! I'm to bright and made in some taiwanese sweat shop, and fall apart after 6 months! Yeeeeaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!

              Reply To Post


            22. by golferguy675
              (600 posts)

              11 years ago

              Re: Cannonball Saxophones

              YEAH, THEY SUCK!!!!!

              Reply To Post


            23. by sax_maniac
              (984 posts)

              11 years ago

              Re: Cannonball Saxophones

              As long as the CEO from Cannonball is monitoring the forum, maybe she could let us know what Cannonball's warranty return policy is. A $2000 sax had better come with some back-up. And fellow readers and posters, be wary. Manufacturers of instruments have folks cruising the web posing as "happy players". This is a non-regulated opinion board and everything posted here should be taken with a grain of salt.

              Reply To Post


            24. by golferguy675
              (600 posts)

              11 years ago

              Re: Cannonball Saxophones

              What he said!!!

              Reply To Post


            25. by Sheryl Laukat
              (6 posts)

              10 years ago

              "happy players"

              We haven't asked anyone to cruise the web posing as "happy players". We stand behind our horns and we're willing to work with customers to their satisfaction. Sheryl Laukat Cannonball

              Reply To Post


            26. by i just play
              (16 posts)

              9 years ago

              Re: "happy players"

              Hi Sheryl, I can't wait to get my cannonball. First, I must sell my Yani 991b which i've been unhappy with since the second day I owned it. Your and Tevis' horns play well for me. You won't sell them on line which is great and you only let good music stores sell them. I like the approach your company has. These selmerites on this site disgust me. I love the mark six. When they were built they were the best. Cannonball has taken the best features of the mark six along with other great horns and combined them. I look foreword to owning a cannonball and I know that if I have a problem, either you or Tevis will find a way to make that problem dissappear. I can't get Yanagisawa to respond to my emails regarding the problems I have with their horn. Their customer service is terrible. On the other hand, Tevis emailed little old me when I needed questions answered and my concerns addressed. Your customer service is great and I have not even bought your horn yet. Thank and keep up the good work.

              Reply To Post


          2. by writermom
            (2 posts)

            10 years ago

            Re: Cannonball Saxophones

            I played a Cannonball alto the other day at a local music store. I liked the sound, but I strongly disliked the feel of the octave key (which is shaped much different than the one on my current Yanagisawa alto). My advice would be to go to a store that sells Cannonballs and try a few. See what you think. You could also try a few Yamahas (like the YAS-475 and YAS-62II) and the Yanagisawa A901 for comparison.

            Reply To Post


            1. by chiamac
              (586 posts)

              10 years ago

              Re: Cannonball Saxophones

              speaking of silverplating... I had my old link plated once and after a year most of that wore off. why? it wasn't because of acid, it wasn't because of poor plating, it wasn't because of normal wear, it was because I was a idiot and didn't know how to take care of the piece. (period) I think I'm gonna chrome it next time=)

              Reply To Post Yahoo! AIM


              1. by SaxMan
                (559 posts)

                10 years ago

                Re: Cannonball Saxophones

                Uh, yeah right - silver is the toughest plating normally used in instruments. The piece was either not all the way clean before it was plated, or the plating was WAY too thin or some other chemical factor acted on it. My true tone wasnt taken care of for 50 plus years, my new wonder II for at least 15, their plating looks almost as good as one that bear has. IF you have it plated again - in silver, tell them you want about 15-20 microns of silver on it. If you do chrome - chrome deadens sound and it wont play as good.

                Reply To Post


                1. by PIP
                  (29 posts)

                  10 years ago

                  Re: Cannonball Saxophones

                  I don't understand all of the negative Cannonball posts?????????? The only saxophone I own is a 4 year old cannonball 98 Knight. It plays great. I've given it to two professors at two different universities. They've both said that it plays even better than their own. I use Vandoren 3&1/2's with a Selmer C* mouthpiece. I plan on using it in college and on into a pro career.

                  Reply To Post


                2. by golferguy675
                  (600 posts)

                  10 years ago

                  Re: Cannonball Saxophones

                  Well let us know when you go pro with THAT setup...

                  Reply To Post


                3. by justanothersaxguy
                  (58 posts)

                  9 years ago

                  Re: Cannonball Saxophones

                  sorry, but man, is that a dumb thing to say

                  Reply To Post


                4. by hypersax
                  (2 posts)

                  8 years ago

                  Re: Cannonball Saxophones

                  This will be a one time post with no responses. I've played professionally since the mid 60's and I'm still working. I've worked with many "players" and many "hacks" over the years. Most of the ignorant, arrogant and obnoxious musicians I had the misfortune to be on stage with were always the "HACKS".

                  Reply To Post


                5. by hypersax
                  (2 posts)

                  8 years ago

                  Re: Cannonball Saxophones

                  This will be a one time post with no responses. I've played professionally since the mid 60's and I'm still working. I've worked with many "players" and many "hacks" over the years. Most of the ignorant, arrogant and obnoxious musicians I had the misfortune to be on stage with were always the "HACKS".

                  Reply To Post


                6. by SaxMan
                  (559 posts)

                  10 years ago

                  Re: Cannonball Saxophones

                  heck, let us know how it is when it becomes a 5 year old sax aka a formed sheet of brass.

                  Reply To Post


                7. by BayviewSax
                  (8 posts)

                  10 years ago

                  Re: Cannonball Saxophones

                  If I may, I've just read this entire thread. I've got my own concerns about the CB long-term, but we'll just have to wait and see. I know I've played a Knight and two Big Bells. The Knight did not impress me (though I didn't hate it) but the Big Bell impressed the hell out of me for the price, and I currently play a SerieIII. For the most part this discussion was very interesting, especially when Sheryl Laukat showed up. In a pinch, I needed a horn for a gig at the last minute and didn't want to make the 4.5-hour round trip to get my horn. I knew of a CB dealer, and called him and arranged to rent the horn for the evening. I use middle-era Link STM 8*, and have played it since I got my first Zephyr (built ~1964). The dealer wasn't offering to rent me a mouth piece, so I test played the horn with the CB mouthpiece. Again, I was impressed. It's no STM, but for a stock piece, it responded well and gave me great command in all registers. The intonation was great. The horn, a lacquer free horn, was about the ugliest hunk of metal I've ever held. The gawdy engraving bugged me less without the lacquer, though (the other Big Bell I have played was a black nickel model). I was able to play my set without missing any altissimo, even with the stock CB piece and a lesser reed than I'm accustomed to. The action was great, and the thing just felt sturdy, but played with ease. I would ABSOLUTELY recommend this horn to a student who is getting serious. It may not be your last horn, but it will take you that next step. Avoid eBay. If you can't play it, don't buy it. Lastly, one poster, golferguy675, has demonstrated the most arrogant attitude I've seen in over ten years of online conversation. We get it, you don't like CB horns. You're welcome to your opinion, but that doesn't clear you to go into heat with everyone who hold a different point of view. Your remarks about someone trying to get a gig with their setup are tasteless and classless. If you DO in fact play professional and your bandstand attitude is anywhere close to what you've shown here, I'm quite sure you turn your audiences off very quickly. Take some Midol and settle down, Francis. One other thing: Since your so aces above the rest of us, maybe you could note that when you use the word "too", synonymous with 'also', it's TWO (2) "O"s.

                  Reply To Post


                8. by cavefish
                  (20 posts)

                  10 years ago

                  Re: Cannonball Saxophones

                  ALL IN ALL YOU SEAM TO BE THE MOST LOGICAL ONE HERE DO YOU THINK A LAQUERLESS ( MAD MEG) FOR A THOUSAND BUCKS WOULD BE BETTER THAN A YTS52

                  Reply To Post


                9. by chiamac
                  (586 posts)

                  10 years ago

                  Re: Cannonball Saxophones

                  "Lastly, one poster, golferguy675, has demonstrated the most arrogant attitude I've seen in over ten years of online conversation." I'm sorry man, but you need to get out more. SQ is like a poilte convention compaired to some forums I have posted on. (Golfer and even SaxMan don't come close to the assholes I have seeen) so be happy with what you/we have and don't complain too much.

                  Reply To Post Yahoo! AIM


                10. by BayviewSax
                  (8 posts)

                  10 years ago

                  Re: Cannonball Saxophones

                  Maybe you're right, but based on what I read above, he was a needless putz who crapped on everybody who expressed an opinion other than his own. He writes and thinks like a 14-year-old, and I have little patience for that. To the poster who was pleased with his Wizard/C* combination. Play what you like and what feels right, don't let anybody convince you otherwise.

                  Reply To Post


                11. by BayviewSax
                  (8 posts)

                  10 years ago

                  Re: Cannonball Saxophones

                  In my opinion, for my money, yes. The YTS is a student model. It's going to last like one. Both horns play well, both have good intonation. You'll find the CB is a bit heavier, but I think the response will be a bit better. (my opinion) I think the Mad Meg may be the ugliest horn I've ever played, but the action was remarkable. If you can, play both horns, then decide for yourself. The only other option you might want to look into is an older Conn, rebuild. If it's done right, they're marvelous horns.

                  Reply To Post


                12. by golferguy675
                  (600 posts)

                  10 years ago

                  Re: Cannonball Saxophones

                  Well thank you for the grammar lesson. I didn't know it was so important to use perfect english on the INTERNET, because apparently everybody else does... And last time I checked, we can express our opinions as we wish. Oh no! I started my sentence with an "and"! You'd better correct that too!

                  Reply To Post


                13. by BayviewSax
                  (8 posts)

                  10 years ago

                  Re: Cannonball Saxophones

                  You're right, I stand corrected. Here's my opinion: you're a prick. Further, if one or two people would pay attention to things like their grammar, perhaps the world wouldn't be in the intellectual bog that it's in. See ya, sax god. (eyes roll)

                  Reply To Post


              2. by hawaiiansaxman
                (1 post)

                9 years ago

                Re: Cannonball Saxophones

                i am also in 9th grade and just recently got a cannonball sax. it has a beautiful tone and when you play on it, it has a smoothe tone and is tunned almost perfectly. i have a tenor and soprano sax from cannonball and they are exellent! you should get your self one. it is worth the money. and the selmer series saxes arent very good if you ask me. they tend to get out of tune or loose their smoothness. well i hope this really helped you.

                Reply To Post


                1. by tenor562
                  (297 posts)

                  9 years ago

                  Re: Cannonball Saxophones

                  As far as I know, the Selmer Series horns beat the Cannonballs in every single way. However, Selmers also beat the Cannonballs in every way money wise. They're different. It's like comparing a deluxe jupiter to a Yamaha Z. Saying the Selmer saxes aren't very good is just wrong. Sure the series horns aren't as great as the References or the Marks, but check the price tag. Cannonballs are cheaper because they're less durable and just feel thin, not the full horn. It played ok, but taking care of it was going to be tough, it felt like it was nearly falling apart. Keep in mind, this is my opinion. My local music store is a Cannonball and Selmer dealer. They are fans of both, but advise you to get a Selmer if you have the money. There's a big difference in price. Cannonballs, in my opinion are just too expensive for what you actually get. -tenor562

                  Reply To Post


                2. by connsaxman_jim
                  (2336 posts)

                  9 years ago

                  Re: Cannonball Saxophones

                  Cannonballs are comparable to Winston, Jupiter and LA Sax in terms of their quality. They're better than they used to be, but I would hardly classify them as a professional instrument. They're an intermediate at best! Even though I'm not a Selmer fan by any means, I would still take a Selmer over a Cannonball. The best value right now is the Yamaha 62 series and the 82 Z. GREAT horns; and of course there's my personal favorite, the Keilwerth SX-90!

                  Reply To Post Yahoo!


              3. by syrasax
                (75 posts)

                9 years ago

                Re: Cannonball Saxophones

                I’ve been paying attention to this Cannonball post because at some point soon I’ll look to upgrade my tenor and the CB is one option I’m considering. I haven’t been playing the sax that long but I have been around music for a while and while I would never presume to be the skilled musician many of you are (and probably never will be) this thread has helped me come to some conclusions. First of all the strength and passion for this CB discussion is, by itself, revealing. It doesn’t seem to appear in any other “ax” discussion to this degree. That said, it seems to me that deciding on and purchasing a saxophone (or any other musical instrument) is a matter of personal taste, assessment of the craftsmanship, end use (jazz, church, concert band etc.) and budget. If you’re smart you seek out the advice of other people whose opinion you trust and respect, fold that into your own values and make a decision. In many ways it’s a lot like buying a car and connsaxman’s comparison to the motorcycle models is valid. And like a vehicle, the purchase of a sax can be emotional. In many ways the kind of sax you buy, and therefore display to all who see you as a musician, can be a statement. A high-end sax says, “accomplished, serious and substantive” and I think many people don’t like the idea of being seen and heard with anything other than a top name brand. Same with cars too don’t you think? Wouldn’t you rather drive a BMW instead of a Dodge Stratus? But interestingly, both will get you there . . . same with a sax me thinks. And like life, it’s a compromise. As Mick said, “You can’t always get what you want.” In spite of the early reports of poor quality, there have been enough positive comments and positive testimonials that would make me give the CB a look. The Hyundai was crap when it first came out and now it’s a Consumer Reports Best Buy. Besides, with every financial advisor on the planet telling me I’m not saving enough for retirement the extra few grand I’d save with a CB might get me that walker or extra teeth I’ll need in old age.

                Reply To Post


              4. by west
                (242 posts)

                9 years ago

                Re: Cannonball Saxophones

                I am in the ninth grade also, and I have an intermediate model tenor. it works great and if prices bother you, wait until you can outplay your instrument and then upgrade. And I have played the Cannonballs. OMPLETE AND UTTER CRAP!!!!! I have never been more disappointed in a saxophone. It sounded good to me when I read about them and a lady at Sam Ash even told me they were as good as the pro yamahas. CRAP!!!!!!!!!!

                Reply To Post


                1. by west
                  (242 posts)

                  9 years ago

                  Re: Cannonball Saxophones

                  Oh yes. I also forgot to mention that While I was testing $2000 soprano sax Cannonballs, there was an intermediate Yamaha soprano sax for about $1400 (new!) Just sitting on a shelf at ABI. Compare , oh say, a (1)garbage man to(2) Donald Trump. who would you rather be? Just like a (1)Cannonball to a (2)Yamaha. Which one would you rather play?

                  Reply To Post


                  1. by justanothersaxguy
                    (58 posts)

                    9 years ago

                    Re: Cannonball Saxophones

                    I wanted to share a thought or two, for what it's worth - particularly in light of all the responses to the original question. I want to preface the remark by saying a couple of things. 1) I've played the older Cannonballs (knights). 2) I own a Big Bell Tenor. 3) I've never played a Mark VI, and 4) I've played almost everything else (Keilworth, Yanagisawa, Yamaha, Jupiter, SA80 series 2, series 3, etc). That' s not all. But these are some of the ones I've tried. I don't know of any of the earlier Cannonballs falling apart; I've only heard the stories, but I can't comment on what I don't know (and I'm thinking neither should anybody else). But I want to tell my story, as another point of reference for those considering Cannonball. I had a Buffet Super Dynaction. It was a really good horn. I used to shop around, because I wanted to get "the best" I could to play (I play live, do studio stuff in Detroit, Toronto, London, etc). Every time I picked up another horn and tried it next to my old Buffet, I liked them, but they didn't impress me enough to shell out any bucks for them - they didn't strike me as any better than I already had (different, yes. But better? No). Until I played a Cannonball. I was impressed enough after about the first 6 notes to really notice a difference (for me. That isn't to say they will impress everybody else that way). But enough that I quickly knew I wanted one. You have to try it, you have to see what suits your taste, you have to ignore most of what people say here (unfortunately) and decide for yourself what you think. As far as holding up, mine has not fallen apart; the only problem with finish wear is the lacquer wearing off the octave key. But I try to practice every day, and play most weekends. The silver has held up very well (I play a SLS). It's in and out of the case everyday, too. And the Silver is %100 intact. I thought whoever it was that said you have to find "not the horn, not the mouthpiece, but the combination" made a good point. There is some good advice in these posts, and unfortunately, a lot of opinionated crap (when people say they have never owned one, but they're garbage, don't put as much weight to that opinion as you would on an opinion from someone who has owned one and says the same, for example.) And DON'T confuse the opinions about solid construction, durability of finish, etc. on the old ones with the same opinion about a BIG BELL. The BIG BELL is a newer breed of horn. I'm not knocking the older ones. But I AM saying it seems to me that there might be a difference with the Big Bell series (they use Japanese brass, etc). One last thought (I know some people seem to make a big deal about Taiwan vs. Paris or German or Japanese). Back in the sixties, "made in Japan" automatically meant "crap." But nobody says Yanagisawa or Yamaha are crap. Just give Cannonball a chance to speak for itself for sound, feel, etc. As far as longevity, and durability, I think any Big Bell will have shown itself to hold up very well. After that, they're all good. Which one do you like better? That's all I think can be realistically said. (IMHO).

                    Reply To Post


                    1. by connsaxman_jim
                      (2336 posts)

                      9 years ago

                      Re: Cannonball Saxophones

                      Well I will say this. I have tried a few Cannonballs. I've never owned one. I never had any desire to. They seem to be getting better. The last one I played was a silver alto, and with my Otto Link Tone Edge mouthpiece, it sounded a lot like an old King Super 20 Silversonic. I was impressed with the tone, but the overall quality of the saxophone is still mediocre. Cannonball still has a way to go, but their quality seems to be getting better. Selmer quality is really slipping while the prices soar!

                      Reply To Post Yahoo!


                    2. by west
                      (242 posts)

                      9 years ago

                      Re: Cannonball Saxophones

                      I admit while i tried the cannonball, the finish was neat, and the feel was great. It just needs alot of work when it comes to sound quality. I haven't tried a Cannonball since last year, so maybe i'll try another today. I am also going to try some selmer altos today and see what they sound like.

                      Reply To Post


                  2. by bmcguire
                    (45 posts)

                    9 years ago

                    Re: Cannonball Saxophones

                    Just another sax guy has stated it perfectly! I am a huge Gerald Albright fan. With that in mind I was anxious to try one. I hadn't been horn shopping in a while and a lot of new axes have come out. Reference 54, Custom Z, and these Big Bell's that Gerald is playing. So armed with my MKVI for a frame of reference I headed out to NYC to check em out. I didn't buy anything because none gave me that feeling that i had to buy it! They didn't do for me what my MK and my other Alto's did, that can't put em down feeling. But, I was very impressed with the Cannonball, considering it was 2000 less than the Reference 54. They were different, but considering the fact that it's a Selmer, it should have crushed the Cannonball. This was a really nice horn. If I was a 9th grade kid looking for a new horn (especially within a budget) I would definatley put this on my list. So, the moral in this is in the world of musical instruments you can't say anything is crap. Quality of build is the only debatable aspect. I heard Gerald play live on his (which btw, when Gerald was playing Super Actions on his album, he still played live on a MKVI) Cannonball horns and sounded as good as usual. If you find a horn that gives you that feeling than it's the one for you. It's a great time to be shopping for a pro horn, lots of choices, Selmer picked a bad time to start gouging thier prices. I own 3 Selmers, I don't see that list growing.

                    Reply To Post


                  3. by connsaxman_jim
                    (2336 posts)

                    9 years ago

                    Re: Cannonball Saxophones

                    Hmmm....I wonder how much Cannonball is paying him to use that sax live! They're getting better. I'll give them that. When I first played one, I thought, "what a piece of junk", but the last 2 I played were much better. They still have a ways to go though. I'm sticking with my vintage horns!

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                2. by saxgroovez
                  (11 posts)

                  9 years ago

                  Re: Cannonball Saxophones

                  You're only in ninth grade. Every horn you play is going to sound like crap.

                  Reply To Post


                  1. by i just play
                    (16 posts)

                    9 years ago

                    Re: Cannonball Saxophones

                    Hey saxgroovez, Don't tell the kid he sucks. From what I understand, James Carter could outplay most adults when he was in ninth grade. I must weigh in on the Cannonball. The big bell tenor is a great instrument. I own a Yani 991-b. I hate it. its sound is boring and soundwise has me stuck in the sea of sax players. I am selling that piece of shit in favor of the cannonball. I played one for the first time last week,wow. After that, I talked to my repairman and he said that the new cannonballs are built very well. I am tired if the selmerites on this site who bash the cannonballs without ever trying one. The new selmers suck. The old mark six is probably the best horn ever made. The problem is finding one that isn't worn out. If you find a super clean one, I guarantee you will pay a minimum of five tthousand dollars for it. I am a professional jazz musician who lives in Sacramento which means I don't have five thousand dollars to spend on a horn because their are not many gigs here. My advise to anyone buying a horn. 1. play everything 2. buy the horn that makes you sound good. 3. if it's a used horn, have a good repairman check it out. 4. don't listen to the haters on this thread. Anyone want a Yani used only one year? The cannonball is a hybrid cross between a king super 20 and a mark six. Don't knock them till you play them.

                    Reply To Post


                    1. by connsaxman_jim
                      (2336 posts)

                      9 years ago

                      Re: Cannonball Saxophones

                      "The cannonball is a hybrid cross between a king super 20 and a mark six. Don't knock them till you play them." I'd say that is a pretty accurate description of the newer Cannonball horns, but when Cannonball saxophones first hit the market, they were not all that great! They have made a lot of improvements in the last couple years, but the quality of metal doesn't compare to a Super 20 or a Mark VI; especially the Super 20.

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                    2. by justanothersaxguy
                      (58 posts)

                      9 years ago

                      Re: Cannonball Saxophones

                      I hear this "but the quality of the metal doesn't measure up" and I have to wonder what you mean by that? It sure didn't on the old ones. And you are right, the quality of the new ones is vastly superior. But other than testing how easily you could bend the keys, I have to wonder A) what you mean by that - other than hardness, the other primary factor is sound, which is subjective, and B) how can you prove it, since the hardness test is destructive, and so I wonder whose horn you bent keys or folded a bell on, and the sound is, again, subjective, so "better quality of metal" would also be subjective. What do you mean (and I do feel the metal is pretty good, as I mentioned in a previous post that I tried to bend some keys to adjust for my hand position, and had to remove the key to do it successfully, because of the hardness of the brass in the keywork). How have you verified the quality of the metal? (Or is this a subjective impression, still?)

                      Reply To Post


                  2. by saxgroovez
                    (11 posts)

                    9 years ago

                    Re: Cannonball Saxophones

                    First thing I'd like to say, real tone comes from within. You gotta have the chops, man! Your diaphragm gotz to be able to put out your tone! A lot of these "so called" horn player expect the horn to do all the work for them. I mean, I've heard wannabees play on the best Mark 6 and sound like a beginner. You know what I mean, tone hasn't matured, airy, just plain nasty. They'd sound just as bad on a student bundy! I'd like to also add that I've been playing for twenty years so I know I'm very familiar with horns and tone. Ok....just yesterday, I tried out a CB alto global series, it had the silver bell, gold body, and silver neck. I was curious after reading these posts, and wanted to find out for myself about CBs. Also like to mention i was using my hard rubber beechler 7 mp. I'd like to start with the pros....... The horn felt very sturdy, not light like a yamaha. It was on the heavier side, but not too heavey. Buttons felt like they wouldn't bend easily like other horns i've tried. Button placement was fine, nothing my fingers couldn't handle. G# placement was suprisingly nice, since i have a short pinky, it has been an issue in the past with other horns..but not on the CB. First thing i did was play every note on the horn....Intonation is superb. I have a sensitive ear, so i've always been able to hear intonation problems any any horn. The CB was perfectly in tune. Now the tone, seemed a bit on the bright side, which didn't bother me too much because i'm a bright player, but on the other hand I've played Mark 6s that were just as bright or even brighter. All I gotta do is work with the MP..that's it..nuthin major..u gotta just fine the mp that works for u on any particular horn. The middle register of this horn really freakin sang....la la la la laaaaaaaa! You could really hear the resonance! And yes, it did remind me of a mark 6, but not at all the same. Like I've heard people say, CB got's its own thang goin, and it ain't bad at all. Altissimo, effortless, and phat! The horn is incredibly responsive, very flexible and that's important cuz i'm a soulful player, that horn took the soulful beating i gave it and came out on top. ..................Cons.....only 1 con.....middle D seems a little muffled, i want more out of that middle D!!!!! But again...my Yamaha Tenor 82 Z's Middle D sucks even worse! I think if CB can make that middle D sing....wow......over all the horn is one of the best i've tried, I wouldt fork over 3500 dollars for a mark six when one of these can sell on ebay for about 1500.00 bucks. I want to try out the b-ice or black nickel alto to see what that sounds like...Or CB can endorse me, and make them sound as good as they are! So CB...i play in the SB-Ventura county areas, I can make your horn sound so good...people gonna be like damn...that's a CB? hit me up!

                    Reply To Post


                    1. by i just play
                      (16 posts)

                      9 years ago

                      Re: Cannonball Saxophones

                      Hey Saxgroovez, The black ice is the one that I tried and loved. That is an excellent choice. The two necks are really give different sounds on that set up.

                      Reply To Post


                    2. by connsaxman_jim
                      (2336 posts)

                      9 years ago

                      Re: Cannonball Saxophones

                      The quality of brass used in the earlier horns was much better. The old American saxophones were made of solid brass, and a gauge much heavier than most saxophones today. Most saxophones today are made of an alloy that is much lighter and thinner. Selmer saxophones use some copper for added strength, which gives them their reddish tint. Certain characteristics of the metal effect the tone, but so do other specifications, such as the size of the bell, the bore, tone holes, the type of pads, etc. The brass used to make the King Super 20's, Conn 10M's and the other great horns is partly responsible for their tone.

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                    3. by west
                      (242 posts)

                      9 years ago

                      Re: Cannonball Saxophones

                      That was a harsh post, and my post won't sound funny but, daer lord did that make me laugh. Now my stomach hurts.

                      Reply To Post


                      1. by justanothersaxguy
                        (58 posts)

                        9 years ago

                        Re: Cannonball Saxophones

                        oh, yeah. I hear ya. My stomach also hurts. Way more than is appropriate, but yeah, it really hurts. That was funny.

                        Reply To Post


                    4. by saxgroovez
                      (11 posts)

                      9 years ago

                      Re: Cannonball Saxophones

                      People shouldn't knock Cannonball horns. It is an extremely good horn. I played a YAS 875 Custom after I tried out the CB, and I was like, CB just spanked one of Yamaha's top of the line horns. And if you're in highschool, or you're one of these "can barely get a decent tone on a Mark 6" players, you really should'nt talk smack about a horn that is out of your league. CB are made for players with some chops on them. Why do u think Gerald Albright plays them? I saw him at the Key Club in Hollywood blowing the crap out of his CBs. For all you other peeps, don't buy a pro horn until you're actually able to get a decent tone on the one you have.

                      Reply To Post


                    5. by saxgroovez
                      (11 posts)

                      9 years ago

                      Re: Cannonball Saxophones

                      People shouldn't knock Cannonball horns. It is an extremely good horn. I played a YAS 875 Custom after I tried out the CB, and I was like, CB just spanked one of Yamaha's top of the line horns. And if you're in highschool, or you're one of these "can barely get a decent tone on a Mark 6" players, you really should'nt talk smack about a horn that is out of your league. CB are made for players with some chops on them. Why do u think Gerald Albright plays them? I saw him at the Key Club in Hollywood blowing the crap out of his CBs. For all you other peeps, don't buy a pro horn until you're actually able to get a decent tone on the one you have.

                      Reply To Post


                      1. by phathorn
                        (165 posts)

                        9 years ago

                        Re: Cannonball Saxophones

                        The CB big bells are good horns...spank my custom alto? not a chance...BTW, you only need to post something once to make a point.

                        Reply To Post


                        1. by west
                          (242 posts)

                          9 years ago

                          Re: Cannonball Saxophones

                          SaxGroovez- You said that the CBs are made for people with real chops( or somethin' like that ). I would think that a true top of the line horn would be easier for the whole range of musicians and not just pros. The Cbs are not out of many highschoolers leagues either. In fact there were three of my friends that were just accepted into the marine Corps Band. They were the only 3 excepted out of 9 states.

                          Reply To Post


                        2. by west
                          (242 posts)

                          9 years ago

                          Re: Cannonball Saxophones

                          And next time when you hear Gerald Albright play the CRAP out of the CB, take note of how long it takes for even a pro of his level to get it all out. CB has been officially spanked. Ouch!

                          Reply To Post


                        3. by connsaxman_jim
                          (2336 posts)

                          9 years ago

                          Re: Cannonball Saxophones

                          If Gerald Albright plays a Cannonball, I would assume that: 1. He is receiving a substantial amount from Cannonball for endorsing their product. 2. His horn is customised, or built better than the horns that they sell. It has better pads, etc. 3. Cannonball supplies him with new horns ever so often that are properly set up. Don't just assume that he's playing a CB because they are "such a great horn." I would rate them intermediate at best. They're comparable to a pro model Jupiter horn. The quality is considerably better now than 5 years ago, but they still don't begin to compare to the Keilwerth, Yamaha, and better Selmer horns. I'd take a Cannonball over one of the cheaper Selmers. A lot of people have mixed opinions here. My opinion has changed from an absolute negative to " they're a decent intermediate horn". I think the Yamaha is a much better value though.

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                        4. by connsaxman_jim
                          (2336 posts)

                          9 years ago

                          Re: Cannonball Saxophones

                          If you compare saxophones to cars, Cannonballs are like Kia's and my old Conns, Kings and Bueschers are like vintage street rods! Kia's are decent economy cars, but, anyone wanna race? My old street rods will blow the doors of your Kia!

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                        5. by i just play
                          (16 posts)

                          9 years ago

                          Re: Cannonball Saxophones

                          Apples and oranges connsaxman. Again those old horns are great if you can find one that isn't completly screwed up. Its like trying to find a mopar without rust or trying to find parts for a mustang gt. good luck. If I were able to find a mark vi with good original lacquer and pads, I would snap it up so fast it would make your head spin. A near perfect selmer would cost way more than the average musician can afford unless that musician has his law degree to fall back on. the problem with old street rods is that they are not reliable daily transportation. Neither are some old horns. It is also hard to find repair shops that understand the mechanisms of some of the old horns because they don't work on that many of them because they are mostly gone, just like hot rods. the hot rod comparison is a good one.

                          Reply To Post


                        6. by west
                          (242 posts)

                          9 years ago

                          Re: Cannonball Saxophones

                          Good comparison Connsaxman Jim. Also sax groovez- I'm not trying to be rude if my previous posts sound a tad harsh. I just couldn't resist

                          Reply To Post


                        7. by justanothersaxguy
                          (58 posts)

                          9 years ago

                          Re: Cannonball Saxophones

                          I find the over -exaggerations a little nauseating. If you tried one (and I'm talking about the big bell horns), you'd AT LEAST have to admit they're good. Or else, you'd be demonstrating a little closed-mindedness. It's one thing to say they're good, but the others are better (at least that is honest enough to allow a little room for personal prejudice). But when I hear people come out with remarks like KIA vs street rod, or worse yet, calling them complete and utter crap and the like, it betrays a certain bullheadness that seems to be saying, "my mind is made up; don't confuse me by making me deal with the facts - especially because I haven't even tried one yet, and I don't want to because I might end up being wrong." At least when a grade 9 kid calls them complete and utter crap, I can excuse it as the pride of youth. You guys sound like you've been around long enough to know better. Grow up, and then come back and act immature.

                          Reply To Post


                      2. by TANGO SIX ONE
                        (255 posts)

                        9 years ago

                        Re: Cannonball Saxophones

                        The knights Templar have read all these posts some really good advice and some not so good.A lot of this can be dowm to taste.Some one like your self at your age the order would state the following.Best advice move up a horn when ready.If you cant afford a selmer or horn in that league there are other options. however very rarly will you find someone who is satisfied .you will hopefully continue to try different ones all your life trying to search for better all the time.Our view is vintage martin Conn king if you can afford it or for the money Bu 400 .However our advice for you eventually would probably aim for new Selmer Keilworth sx90 the top yani rather than vintage.Vintage are great for us vetrons who know there little idiocyncracies but new top horn has no wear, play in the rods will be in tune although play a few of each and check.A real big tip when choosing your alto by all means work towards the sound of your heros but dont get attracted to vintage horn purly for that reason.The best new alto sax for the Knights order is super action 80 mk2 make sure it is laquer heavy, take someone with you that knows what we state here. Its deceiving but that is the best of the new selmer altos.If moneys an object at this stage then get conn 6m vintage, brilliant for the money and they are fantastic horn.We are not convinced with any of the cannonball horns,when you get your sax you can call it what you want anyway. The knights templar and their counterparts the Teutonic knights wish you the best of luck, its a tough business but if you believe in you self you will have a lot of fun and a great life.(BIRD LIVES)

                        Reply To Post


                        1. by west
                          (242 posts)

                          9 years ago

                          Re: Cannonball Saxophones

                          Fyi: A new Yamaha horn called the Q series or something is out. I think it's only a student but I'm not sure.

                          Reply To Post


                          1. by Tully
                            (49 posts)

                            9 years ago

                            Re: Cannonball Saxophones

                            I'm sure this has been mentioned above, but you can get a Yamaha YTS-62/62II or Yanagisawa T901 for about the same price as a Cannonball, both of which I definitely prefer over the Cannonball. By the way, check out www.froogle.com (a Google shopping site) to help you find good prices.

                            Reply To Post AIM


                            1. by christisax
                              (2 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Cannonball Saxophones

                              If anyone is looking to buy a new horn in the right price range- definitely try a Cannonball. I just bought one and did a lot of investigating first. There were problems rumored with the older models. I got the newest out there- the Stone Cutter series... some people don't llike the "Excaliber" engraving on the Big Bells... well, now there's the Gerald Albright model with might engraving. I played a Mark VI (until my repair idiot accidentally relacquered it) and then a Yani in high school... they took me all the way to State and Four States Honor Band. The Yani would have paid my way through college, but I didn't go at that time. Now, 7 years later, I decided to go back and decided that I didn't want to pay. I would need an awesome horn for cheap and landed on the CB. For all the skeptics, try one. I did and it got me a FULL SCHOLARSHIP 7 years out of high school. I tried a couple of other used horns before I settled on this one. My boyfriend, having never played anything... asked "why can't you just go to the local music store and buy a cheap horn? What's the difference..." I tried to explain to him that it would be like racing a pinto... no matter how good the driver, the car just couldn't beat a Mustang, etc. When he heard me play 5 or 6 notes on the CB, he was sold. The whole horn plays in tune and is very comparable- I said COMPARABLE, not better- to a Mark VI. If I had the money, I never would have tried the CB. But, I didn't, so here I am... thank you Cannonball for putting out an awesome sax at an incredible price! P.S. I didn't receive any endoresements or special/custom adjustments to my horn for making that statement.

                              Reply To Post


                            2. by itsandysfault
                              (1 post)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Cannonball Saxophones

                              Hello everyone! Hope youre all donig okay. Okay, enough with the smalltalk. I recently went to Griggs Music Store and started to look for a new saxophone. (Mine is a King, a beginner). I tried out a few saxophones (Yamahas, Selmers, and some beginners) The Yamahas were nice, but they just werent my style. The selmers were WAY out of my price range, and I dont want another beginners saxophone. So I tried out the Cannonball Big Bell. After reading this entire thread, I was a little weary of buying one. After I tried it though, I couldnt put it down. I know that seemed cheasy, but I jsut lvoed it. Not only did it sound great (kind of like the Mark VI that i tried), but it was also in my price range! They only cost about 2000 dollars, and they play as if they were worth 3500! The only doubt i have about the CBs is if they will hold up over time. Selmer has already established that theirs will continue to hold up,(sometimes improve!) but what will happen to the CBs? I am willing to take a chance with the CBs, they sound just too damn good.

                              Reply To Post


                            3. by justanothersaxguy
                              (58 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Cannonball Saxophones

                              I've had a big bell for several years now, and play it pretty much every day. I've taken it on the road, on the plane, etc. and I've never had anything fall off or break. You are going to get several types of responses in here, I'm willing to bet. There are some who feel they are good, some feel they are absolute crap (though many who feel this way have never tried one, and never will - which leaves me wondering how they can speak with such authority). But your question is specifically about longevity. Who can answer that? I'm willing to bet it will hold up with the best of them. And here is why I say that. Not only do I have a big bell tenor, I also have an older ('98 knight) alto. There are things I notice that are improvements to the big bell that to me show obvious differences in quality - differences of that type that in my opinion will amount to differences in longevity. The most noticeable one is something to which Cannonball makes reference on their own website (if you check out their website, you will find they are very upfront, honest and straightforward about these things). The thing I notice is how much harder the brass is on the keywork on the Big Bell horns. My '98 knight seems to stay adjusted just fine; but I was able to bend keys to suit my individual preferences for hand positioning, etc. NOT SO WITH THE BIG BELL. I tried adjusting one or two while they were on the horn. Couldn't do it. I had to remove them, and drive over them with a tank to bend them. The brass is every bit as solid, in my opinion, as my old buffet (which, by the way, was the horn I didn't want to give up for anything until I played about 6 notes on a Cannonball). It's only my opinion, but i hope it helps.

                              Reply To Post


                            4. by west
                              (242 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Cannonball Saxophones

                              I tried some Selmers, and although they sounded beautiful, it didn't have as rich as a tone as the yamaha pros did. Liked it, didn't love it. Yamaha 82z was awesome and i jave yet to try the yas-875. Cannonballs are far from my favorite. Not the worst, the near the best. I'll leave it at that

                              Reply To Post


                            5. by connsaxman_jim
                              (2336 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Cannonball Saxophones

                              Jupiter is made in Taiwan. So is Cannonball and Antigua Winds, LA Sax, and Winston. Many of the student model Selmer and Keilwerth horns are also made in Taiwan. Some of the new horns sold under various names owned by Conn-Selmer, like the new Conn, King, and Armstrong saxophones, are also made in Taiwan. Many are made in the same factory, and are basically copies of each other with different engravings, mouthpieces and accessories. The Cannonball horns are decent intermediate horns. I think the newer horns like the Big Bell Global Series are much better than previous models. When I first played a Knight about 3 years ago, I was not too impressed, but I recently played a silver alto that played very well, and sounded a lot like a King Silversonic! They have improved the quality of their horns quite a bit in the last couple years. I do think that the Yamaha horns are a better horn for the same money. The Taiwanese horns are considerably better than the Chinese horns

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                            6. by saxyjeff
                              (25 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              I must say, for crapppy, mass produced, cheap, horribly sounding instruments CB's sure generate a lot of controversy and some of the longest lingering threadlife of any topics in these forums. CB's are either a cancer and the multitude of "expert" armchair musicians who have never EVEN OWNED one are chemotherapy, or vice-versa. I have OWNED an earlier model gorgeous black silver CB tenor that I later sold and upgraded to a particularly phenomenal MK VI tenor which is my main axe. I have an equally incredible BA Alto that I play as well. After auditioning a three year old CB soprano and playing my friends new Stone Series Tenor and Alto CB's (he hasn't touched his Venerable Mk VI's since he got them) I am convinced that my next soprano, bari, tenor and alto might be the new CB's. Anyway we went to LA to watch Pete Christleb blow on his new CB's (he denied any financial endorsement incentives from the CB people...btw Connsax Jim dont you think Selmer, Yamaho and Yani companies could EASILY buy back the support from the many professionals, including Gerald Albright, from such a puny, crappy, cash strapped company as CB?). Anyway Pete never sounded better. Anyway I'm not going to pretend like a lot of you to know all the rediculously BS inaccurate details of The TAIWAN companies. I propose to offer something that I think would be much more valuable than my personal opinion. I'm going to offer you first hand information from the horses's mouths so that the truly inquisitive can continue to form their own opinions regardless of the continued questionable submissions of NON-OWNER self-professed ARMCHAIR MUSCIANS who continue to Preach out their asses. With that said please consider the following articles and websites for your continued professional growth and enjoyment. Recent article by Jason Dumars @: www.dumarsengraving.com/cannonball/cbreview.html The official CB Wegsite @: www.cannonballmusic.com/index.php The Evil Owner's Interview @:www.mmrmagazine.com/mmrmag/mar03/upfront.html In closing I believe that everyone as the right of free speech and should continue to exercise it whenever possible. However I feel that we who take it upon ourselves to wear the heavy responsible "Mantle" of an educator should likewise quit talking out your ass. These threads are started by people who have sincere questions that are better suited by answers from people who are truly KNOWLEDGEABLE (preferably a REAL PREVIOUS OWNER) or at least objective. Some of us really love to hear ourselves talk...sometimves over and over and over again (Jim) when maybe we should "listen". At the very least do your homework and be prepared to back up your statements. And finally....De you guys ever wonder why the truly GREAT players do not participate in these forums? Could it be that they are open minded and really don't care about the crap that seems to consume the rest of us wannabees. Just reread all the posts after reading the above links and see what you think then. Then just hit google...enter cannonball queries and continue your journey. Search out the pros who are playing these things and find out what they really think. Falling off my Soapbox now.. Ciao, Jeff

                              Reply To Post


                            7. by connsaxman_jim
                              (2336 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              Jeff, I have played several Cannonball horns, and while I agree the quality has gotten considerably better the last couple years with the Big Bell Global Series, I have yet to play a Cannonball that I wanted to own. As for talking out my ass, I think that my experience as a saxophonist, and collector entitles me to express my opinions with credibility. When compared to Selmer and Yanagisawa, I would be likely to choose the new Cannonball over both. I think that the Selmer is highly over-rated, and I don't feel that the quality is worth the price! The quality of the Yanagisawa instrument is very good, but I don't care for the tone. The Cannonball I played recently reminded me of a King Silversonic, and the sax sounded really good. When you compare a Cannonball to a Keilwerth, or a Yamaha, I think that the Keilwerth especially comes out on top, and the Yamaha 62 Series II is a GREAT buy.

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                            8. by saxyjeff
                              (25 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              Jim I respect your opinion and in no way mean to denigrate you as a human. However for a guy who has never even owned one maybe your advice really isnt extensive enough to comment, repeatedly and with such conviction (intimating deep personal experience and insider knowledge) regarding the Cannonball line. This is a Cannonball thread, not a "I tried a few at the local store"....That experience is not truly reflective of what the majority of satisfied consumers have experienced out in the real world. As a collector and saxaphonist you are clearly qualified to give probably significant advice on at least the equipment you have personal and extensive experience. You have self-admittedly limited your involvement regarding ownership experience of CB instruments, yet you carry on as if you are more than qualified with your limited life experience to denigrate this product. I notice that you are an avid poster in many threads and I'm sure that you are much more qualified to offer professional advice in those areas...I just think your experience, and the majority of other detractors posting on this, and other CB threads out there in Space, does not lend you to be a credible source of repeated opinion, regardless of your personal honesty and integrity. Peace, Jeff

                              Reply To Post


                            9. by connsaxman_jim
                              (2336 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              Jeff, when I review a saxophone, I don't just try it out in a store; I take it home with me for a weekend, or take it to a gig and play the CRAP out of it! I have had a very good relationship with a local music store, and I have written reviews on various products and horns. I've played just about every brand of saxophone you can think of. I appraise vintage horns, and I do some restoration and repair myself also, so I know what to look for in terms of quality of craftsmenship. Cannonballs have gotten considerably better over the past few years. I think they make a pretty nice horn. I don't feel that I am "bashing" them in any way. But, I just don't feel that the quality of the Cannonballs is on the same level as the Keilwerths or the Yamahas. Selmers......well, I wasn't very impressed with the Series III I just traded off. I have my opinions about Selmer. I play mostly vintage. I haven't found a new horn that appealed to me as much as the vintage horns I have played.

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                            10. by justanothersaxguy
                              (58 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              What specific physical characteristics do you refer to when you say the quality isn't there?

                              Reply To Post


                            11. by saxyjeff
                              (25 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              Here are some more webpages with information or CB history, philosophy, building materials and craftsmanship. I am married to an souteast asian-american woman. The Asian cultural mastercraftsmen take great pride in their products. To make crap is to disgrace their family and worse yet, their ancestors. Although it is true that crappy production line type products can come out of asian factories we also accept the fact that asian fit and finish can indeed exceed worldwide standards as well as evidenced by established Pre-WWII era behemoths such as Yamaha, Yanigasawa, Sony..etc...Yamaha makes some of the worlds best products from cars, motorcycles, hi end audio equip, in addition to fine musical instruments. But there is always room on the global block for improvement and innovation. Here they are... Some more of the Owners: www.cannonballmusic.com/about.php FAQ: www.cannonballmusic.com/faq.php Current REAL MUSCICIANS who just happen to be overly ecstatic OWNERS (I wonder Jim how much it cost them to buy all these endorsers?) Lets hear what these professionals (not disrespectful 9th graders or dubious armchair musicians) say: www.cannonballmusic.com/artists.php Skip Mesquite: Founding member and lead tenor, Tower of Power. Plays with Cold Blood, and Deniece Williams: "I've been playing Cannonball Saxophones for 5 years now and I'm always asked about them. Three things come immediately to mind: 1. Playability 2. Durability and 3. Intonation from Altissimo to low B flat. You can't ask for more than that! If there is, Tevis and Sheryl would figure it out." Mike Dubaniewicz: Music Director and Lead alto for Maynard Ferguson: "After grueling months and years on the road, and around the world; my Cannonball Saxophone held up to all sorts of abuse. These horns are built well and the intonation is very consistent. I have had the pleasure of slaying many an audience with my Cannonball!...Thanks Tevis!!!" Katja Rieckermann: Plays with Rod Stewart and Brooks and Dunn: "I love the Cannonball tenor! It feels like a Mark 6 and has a very big and warm sound that cuts through great in any musical situation. Also, the intonation is impeccable throughout the whole register. I have been getting a lot of compliments on the design (black nickel plated body with silver plated keys). It's very rock 'n roll and classy at the same time." New Century Saxophone Quartet: One of the hottest saxophone ensembles in the market today. "I knew from the first few notes that this horn was for me. I need a horn with a full bodied sound, but that can play sweet and light as a flute. The Big Bell curved soprano did that for me." - Michael Stephenson (Quartet member) "Up until Cannonball I wouldn't even consider playing a horn that was made after the 60's." - Christopher Hemingway (Quartet member) "The best baritone I have ever played!!"- Brad Hubbard (Quartet member) "I was looking to see what was out there in the saxophone world. I tried everything on the market, new and old. I came across a Cannonball. I have to say, I never thought I would find a better horn for what I do that what I already had. I was wrong. This horn plays like it's alive!! Bravo Cannonball, after 20 years New Century has found a home." - Stephen Pollock (Quartet member) Glen Berge: Saxophonist with the NFL band: " My Cannonball Alto & Tenor saxes make playing in any situation a real pleasure! These horns have a smooth fingerboard, play better in tune than my Mark VI's*, and have a bigger tone!!! It is also one of the best looking horns out there!! Thanks Cannonball!!" Steve Tavaglione-Steve Tavaglione is a world-famous studio musician with a resume unequaled in the industry: "The ease of playing the altissimo registers of these saxophones isunparalleled. The horns speak clearly and the action is amazing. The side keys are much easier to manage than Selmers and invite new ideas to emerge because of that. I am 100% sold on theseinstruments. I find that these saxes are perfect for any style of music without having to adjust anything. Thank you Cannonball!" Jamey Aebersold-Extrordinary saxophonist and jazz educator. Writer of his famous improvisation series: "I like the mellow sound of the Cannonball Big Bell soprano and the fingering ease. The curved neck gives me the sound I've always looked for." Pete Christlieb-World class Tenor player, "Tonight Show Band", Sax solos for Steely Dan and "Unforgettable" with Natalie Cole: "I've been going back and forth between a Mark VI* and a Balanced Action* for years, and this is the first horn in 20 years I've played that is comparable in sound and feel to either one." Gerald Albright-Gerald Albright is a multi-instrumentalist known for his lyrical sax playing in both contemporary and straight-ahead genres: "One of the most beautiful experiences in music is to develop a oneness with the instrument of choice. The Cannonball Horns have accurately delivered every musical speech that I have given to my audiences around the world. Develop The Oneness--with Cannonball." Brian Crowne: "I have been looking for a new horn for several years to replace my trusty old King tenor and finally found it in the Big Bell Tenor. I was preparing to buy a new Custom Yamaha, but was so impressed with the comfort, playability and tone of the Cannonball that I immediately changed my mind. The response is exceptional, the altisimo is effortless and wide open. It reminds me a lot of the old Selmer Mark VI's & Balanced Actions, which is cool!" Sam Skelton Professor of Saxophone: Georgia State University Kennesaw State Universtiy Jazz Ensemble Director: Georgia Tech Jazz Artist in Residence: University of Georgia: "Cannonball saxes are of the highest calibre!! No other manufacturer comes to mind in terms of the level of finish work on each and every instrument. The result of the hand work gives them superior pitch and one of the most stable overtone series I have ever experienced! With two necks of different finishes, the player is afforded different tonal spectrums and resistance. Haven't played a Cannonball yet that wasn't outstanding. Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!" Bootsie Barnes- Celebrated Philadelphia Tenor player. Currently with Bill Cosby's Dream Band: "When I'm not touring, I play Philly clubs six nights a week. I need a horn that sounds great, plays great and stands up to life on the road. If I can play one that doesn't cost me a year's rent, all the better." Celebrated Philadelphia Tenor player. Currently with Bill Cosby's Dream Band. Russ Bryant: “I have played a Mark VI for years and from the moment I picked up the Cannonball I fell in love. I love the big, warm sound I get from it and it really allows me to let loose. It has proven itself as a solid horn for me in the studio and on tour with various groups.” Sammy Peralta-highly sought after Grammy Award Winner, producer, writer and touring musical director, Sammy needs the absolute best equipment with him at all times. He states of Cannonball horns: "The team at Cannonball has definitely developed a winning formula with its wonderful horns. Their quality and intonation is superb. A true attention to detail. It is nice to know that I can always count on them in the studio or on the road." Brent Jensen-Director of Jazz Studies, College of Southern Idaho: "I've played Cannonball saxophones in recordings, at club dates, and concerts. I have found them to have great intonation, wonderful response and an altissimo that is superior to that of my former horn, a Yamaha Custom.*" Timothy Ishii-Music Department Chairman, Texas Wesleyan University: "Cannonball saxophones offer the student and professional breadth and depth of tone lacking in other leading brands of saxophones. Rich tone quality, resonance and response, make these instruments well suited for crossing over between the classical and jazz idioms. I highly reccomend them... and at these prices, you can't afford not to have one." Robert Zuckerman-Saxophonist with San Francisco/Bay Area legend Lydia Pence and Cold Blood: "Initially looking for a back-up horn, I happened upon the Cannonball 'Raven' Big Bell tenor saxophone and found that it outperformed my main axe with a superior 'fat' low end, superior balance and intonation throughout, smooth key mechanism and feel, great harmonic overtones allowing ease in the altismo range, and a great overall sound. After getting over the shock and counterintuitive notion that the Cannonballs should not be more affordable than the other available professional horns, I am happily 'sold' on the Cannonball horns. My Cannonball is now my main axe. I recently have been playing the 'Raven' Big Bell curved soprano saxophone which has the elusive soprano sound I have desired and had been unable to find. I have not had this much fun playing since I was a kid (a few years ago)." David McMurray-Amazing Saxophonist and Music Director with KEM. Plays with Chuck Loeb, and Bob James: "I love the Cannonball saxophones. They are very versatile. They give me the grit when playing with rock and funk bands, and yet give me the warmth when doing smooth jazz or ballads. I'm a fan of 40's jazz, and the Cannonball tenor gives me that power. They gives me the full range of the horn very evenly...and I dig the bottom." Stanley Turrentine-"I became one with your horn the first few notes I played." Wow....what more really needs to be said? How much does it costs to keep all these Cats "Paid For"? I really am done now...lol. Peace, Saxyjeff

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                            12. by justanothersaxguy
                              (58 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              Yeah. What he said..... I've always found it amusing that I've NEVER heard a Cannonball fan call Selmers "crap." I would never say Keilwerth is crap. I would never say it about Yamaha, or Yanagisawa. I would likely say that I found a noticeable difference between my Cannonball Big Bell tenor and a Jupiter artist series, and I prefer my Cannonball. I would say I notice differences between the Keilwerths and the Yamahas and Selmers, and the Cannonball I decided to buy. I preferred the Cannonball. But I would never say the others are anything less than very good. But they're not my preference. So why is it that fans of the others never knock the others with such gusto as they knock Cannonball? I have to say I expect it is a psychological phenomenon, but I couldn't begin to figure out what it is.... When some of you guys say, "the quality is just not there," what, specifically, do you mean? Don't answer that with "they've come a long way." Either offer specific examples, and WHY, please, that you offer them. I think SaxyJeff has made lots of good points (lots of points, yeah). And I've asked in here before about the quality question, but I never get an answer. And, Jeff, I hate to break it to you, but I'm willing to bet this won't be the last of the thread. Sorry.....

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                            13. by saxyjeff
                              (25 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              lol....isnt the high school kid who started all this on Social Security by now? I love my vintage horns. Like I said this started out as a thread from a kid asking for some advice about CB's and I expect he meant from people who were happy with them. I currently don't own any but will soon after my Series III Tenor and Mk VI Soprano clear Ebay. I'm selling great horns...I just dont need them anymore. Anyway as a businessman/entrepeneur I was very pleased to learn more about the people who have started this company and their mission for us. I wonder how many years those stinky smelly frenchies cranked out crappy horns until they developed the BA-VI's?? Dont see a lot a activity on Ebay for those 80 year old horns except as museum curios. They should be respected as noteworthy predecessors to a "Bigger Vision" that Selmer Co finally attained. The CB people are no more/ no less passionate about their product. Without naming brands we all are aware of the really pure massmarket junk out there (many regrettably from Asia) that are flooding the market with cheap, student horns bought by ignorant parents who wish only the best for the little Coltranes. I have yet to see an endorsement page with luminaries such as CB has gradually "earned" with the continual evolution of their horns, driven by their own personal committment to their vision. They have arrived. I suspect in the next 5 years this thread will be reflecting back at the earlier posts as the inevitable consequence of innovation. Who knows...after CB buys out Selmer in another 15 years some of our statements may wind up in their $15.99 Barnes & Noble History Book special...lol anyway I hope CB stays small and focussed so that they may always continue to help the others in raising the bar of excellence for us and those that are sure to follow. Jeff

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                            14. by connsaxman_jim
                              (2336 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              Jeff says "Like I said this started out as a thread from a kid asking for some advice about CB's and I expect he meant from people who were happy with them." BUT READ THIS!!! "I currently don't own any but will soon after my Series III Tenor and Mk VI Soprano clear Ebay." How do you know how well they REALLY hold up if you yourself do not own one, and I seriously doubt your are qualified enough as a repair tech to notice the flaws in Cannonball craftsmenship. I feel that a lot of Cannonball's claims are highly overstated. It's a million dollar sales pitch for an $1800 horn! Let me explain what I mean about the quality of Cannonballs. This is right from their website. Big Bell Global Series was given its name partly because we have searched the globe to find the best materials. a. Keys (Japan) -- The brass for our keys is from Japan. Metallurgy tests show that our keys are as hard or harder than other major brands. The hardness of this alloy helps your saxophone stay in optimum adjustment. WRONG!!! This is a lie! Japan and Taiwan BOTH import steel and brass from the United States and Russia because their metal in general is very poor quality! b. Blue Steel Springs (Italy) -- Our quality Blue Steel Springs are imported from Italy. The blue tempered steel springs from Italy are good quality. c. Pads (Italy) -- Our pads are quality pads from Italy with a nickel sound resonator. In the Fall/Winter of 2002 we upgraded to treated pads that are not prone to stick. The German leather pads that are used by Keilwerth are much better quality than the Italian pads. The Italian pads are thinner and wear more easily. d. Brass (Taiwan) -- We were very particular when we chose the brass for our saxophones from Taiwan. It is annealed (heat treated) which increases its strength. The brass for the body and neck is annealed twice and the brass for the bell is annealed three times. Most importantly though, this particular brass allows for a "ring" in the sound that sets Cannonball Saxophones apart from their competition. This is also a load of CRAP!!! I am a mechanical engineer by trade. The carbon in the metal is what gives it strength, but high carbon steel like cast iron for example, doesn't have much malleability. In other words, it doesn't bend, it breaks. By annealing the brass, they make it SOFTER, not stronger. The brass has to be annealed to be workable, but as for Taiwanese brass being the best available? It's NOT!!! e. Mouthpieces (Germany & USA) -- We offer our dealers a choice between a jazz or a classical mouthpiece. Most of these are hard rubber, made in Germany and faced in the USA. Our baritone sax classical mouthpiece is plastic and made in the USA. Our baritone sax jazz mouthpiece (new) is hard rubber and made in USA. You can read more about our mouthpieces in FAQ page. I won't argue with this f. Neckstraps (France) -- Our Big Bell Global Series saxophones come standard with a quality neckstrap from France. Now THIS is something to brag about! Everyone knows the importance of a FRENCH neckstrap! They are simply the BEST available.....SO much better than a NEOTECH.......NOT! AND ABOVE ALL ELSE....The quality of TAIWANESE craftsmenship, although considerably better than the Chinese, is not on par with the quality of the German, French, American and Japanese horns. Anyway, I'm done with this post! Like I have always said. Regarding ANY saxophone new or used, PLAY IT BEFORE YOU BUY IT!!!

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                            15. by justanothersaxguy
                              (58 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              Too bad you're done with the post. You equate "hard" with "strong." The annealing of the metal is done AFTER the working of the metal is complete. It is done to re-align the molecular structure, and to make it more flexible. That IS what makes the brass resonate. Making the key brass harder is a different objective than making the body brass "harder" - you want a resonance in the body, not absolute rigedness. The annealing would improve the sound. It would also surprise me if other manufacturers didn't anneal the metal (I mean real ones, the keilwerths and yamaha, etc.) because the process of forming and shaping the metal in the manufacturing process would have its own effects on the molecular structure - and I would expect that annealing the whole body, as a whole simultaneously would be crucial to getting the body to have a resonance to the molecular structure in its final shape. Just a thought. Although I guess you'll maybe never read it to respond....

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                            16. by connsaxman_jim
                              (2336 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              I understand what you're saying, but saxophones are produced from molds. The brass is annealed remove any impurities and then poured into the molds. Now, if the brass is to be annealed again, it should be done in the molds to prevent distortion from the annealing process. Brass melts at a lower temperature than some steel. The molds would have to be able to withstand the heat required to anneal the brass, which is around 1500 degrees. Bottom line, I don't buy Cannonball's sales pitch about their quality of metal or their annealing process! I think it's a bunch of BS! I'm smart enough to know better!

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                            17. by saxyjeff
                              (25 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              Jim says: "I understand what you're saying, but saxophones are produced from molds." Jeff asks: What saxophones do you mean? Do you mean that brass is "molten" then poured into molds? Or is brass annealed (heated to soften) and then forced somehow into the molds to take the shape of the neck, body and bell tubes? I'm confused. Please refer to my attached Selmer Factory URL to see how they do it and then maybe you can clarify what "you" mean. The use of molds is for "casting". Jim then says: "The brass is annealed remove any impurities and then poured into the molds." Jeff Asks: So by this statement you have answered my above question right? That brass is, lol, heated to the annealing point (or on your planet brasses melting point) "molten" it is then poured in its liquid like state into molds. Want to clarify or are you satisfied with your statement? Jim Continues with: "Now, if the brass is to be annealed again, it should be done in the molds to prevent distortion from the annealing process." Jeff asks: Jim what is the purpose of "annealing" again in your factory? are you trying to harden the brass by annealing ( I assume per your definition "re-melting"). Within the molds. what purpose would remelting serve. I'm very confused and would appreciate your kind professional clarifications. Jim: "Brass melts at a lower temperature than some steel. The molds would have to be able to withstand the heat required to anneal the brass, which is around 1500 degrees." Jeff: What is the construction of your molds then for sax components? are they of steel? How come the pictures (see url below) of the Selmer factory show now molds of any kind? Do other makers use molds then? At least you didnt say the exact melting point of brass was 1500 degrees and gave yourself a little room with "around 1500" degrees. Lets refer to the melting points of two types of brass, their annealing points (which btw is just BELOW the melting point on my planet). And lets review the definition of annealing (espectially the two types regarding brass- one for softening and one method for hardening, which would seem to explain the goal of past and likely present factory methods in use today). Here's a quote (and the appropriate attached url for your review) from a metalsmith regarding hardening of brass through heating (annealing). This is what I believe Selmer is also referring too in their discription: "Annealing Non-Ferrous (including BRASS) Material: Almost all non-ferrous metals are annealed BY HEATING SOMEWHERE JUST BELO THE MELTING POINT and then cooling in air or by quenching in water. Quenching in water is a convienience. Alpha brasses (64-99% copper) are annealed by heating to 700 to 1400°F (the hotter the softer) and can then be be quenched. Alpha-beta brasses (55 to 64% copper) are annealed at the same temperature and CAN BE HARDENED SLIGHTLY by quenching from the annealing temperature. The key word above is slightly. Cold working produces a much greater degree of hardness. The amount of hardening is so low my copper alloys book does not give specific data. If quenched from the low end of the annealing temperature there would be no disceernable difference."-End Quote The Reference page: www.anvilfire.com/FAQs/glos_faq_index.htm I didnt have a clear picture of how saxophones are made until having to take the Jim BS Challenge and find out for myself. Once again Jim thanks for helping me on my Journey. In a nutshell (read indepth the interesting article from Selmer Factor, replete with pictures) brass is supplied to the factory in thin sheets, just like sheet metal is prepared for metalshops. These sheets do not require annealing to soften them because, like sheet metal, this alloy is "softer" than iron/steel blanks. The brass is then stamped using a press and dyes forming the bells for altos and is hand beaten shaped into tenor, baritone and bass clainets (see the wonderful pics and text). blah-blah-blah...the article finally gets to the topic of annealing. In another post Jim describes annealing as a process of heating to remove impurities (annealing has many definitions apparently in Jims laboratory..sorry buddy dont mean to hate:-). Selmer first anneals (heats to the point JUST BELOW MELTING- otherwise they'd have to start all over again) to remove some lead impurities. Following the removal of impurities the annealing continues and this time the goal is to HARDEN (once again not MELT) the metal into its final product properties. Once again all this is backed up by Selmers actual factory specifications-see URL. They are then cut and gently beaten into the finished shapes. (no evidence of annealing yet). Thin sheets of brass are very malleable when attacked by hardened steel hammers and anvils. Jim's Classic Closing: "Bottom line, I don't buy Cannonball's sales pitch about their quality of metal or their annealing process! I think it's a bunch of BS! I'm smart enough to know better!" Jeff: What's not to buy? It is apparently the common standard practice in past and present (although I cant confirm this...I dont have time to look this up...time to visit my wife again for some Afternoon Delight) established and respected saxophone manufacturing companies. I dont get you my friend. I guess Selmer, yamaha, keilwerth, yani...after giving up on trying to "buy back" CB's current list of Impressive Endorsers perhaps more accomplished (or just luckier I guess as some of you Haters moan on about) muscians than most of us, decided to give all those ducats to continue to spread your misinformation in Cyberspace (no i really dont believe that). But what is truly a shame is that irresponsible comments and purported factual "opinions" expoused by so called self-professed experts has likely affected less experienced readers to the point that they now may have chosen to "Not Try Something" after being subjected to repetitive unsubstantiated BS. Many guys like Justanothersaxyguy repeatedly ask you Haters to explain yourselves in terms that they can analyze and give serious "respectful" consideration. Not one of you guys has stepped up to the plate. So far Jim has yet to impress me with any validity to his "opinions". Can it be any clearer how some of stubbornly "Cannot See The Forrest for the Trees?"...lol Now you haters...dont start spewing off a ton of reactive responses. Think for a minute and prepare a mature, reasonable objective reponse and then, pretty please?, try to back it up with a little something factual in the form of a verifiable literary opinion like my posts. Otherwise you're just talking out the wrong end of your an(us)nealed body tube...lol. Now here is Selmer Website. At least read this before responding. Thank you! Here is the website for the Selmer Factory complete with the ENTIRE production process with pictures to substantiate my description. The accompanying text cleary explains that annealing is used to HARDEN the brass...not, lol, melt it (as those are two entirely different properties of brass) www.dornpub.com/SaxjPDF/Selmer.pdf Saxyjeff

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                            18. by justanothersaxguy
                              (58 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              Jim thought the brass was poured into molds? For the body? REALLY? Wow. I missed that one. I thought he was off on some stuff, but this endless parade of I-told-you-so's leaves me thinking I have to set aside an evening and go back and reread the whole thread. (I think my ego is sticking out in here in a couple of spots, too. )

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                            19. by connsaxman_jim
                              (2336 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              Well, heaven forbid we just leave this dead horse alone! I have some time to kill so here, let me clarify a few things! First of all Jeff, I never disrespected you or attacked you the way you did me. My apologies if you found my post offensive. After I reviewed the other posts that you had written before, I saw where you mentioned that you had sold your CB when you bought your Mark VI. Verywell. You bought one, had good luck with it and are considering a new one. I wish you good luck with whatever horn you buy. I have played a couple Cannonballs that I liked, and a couple that I did not. There seems to be inconsistancy in their quality, That is my only concern. Also as I said, I find a lot of CB's claims to be highly overstated and outright false; of course you could say the same thing for Selmer....probably 10 times over! First the statement about the molds. In the past, most parts were made using molds, including the bodies. As I said, I think many of CB's claims are highly exaggerated and outright false, such as their statement on how the brass used to make their bodies is annealed. What I said was that annealing the brass after already working the metal would cause distortion to the piece due to the heat required by the annealing process. Maybe they have found another way of annealing the metal, but I highly doubt it. The only way that I know of to prevent distortion would be to anneal the piece in the mold; referring to the way saxophones were made years ago. I think that today, the brass is annealed to specifications and formed into brass sheeting of the proper thickness, cut into patterns and formed into the body tubing. Here is an exert from a website I found which explains how the bodies of modern saxophones are made: This information pertains to the Yanagisawa saxophones and modern saxophones of today and can be found at: www.cybersax.com/graphics/tech/YaniTour/YaniTour_Page_1.html The saxophone body starts from milled brass sheet, which is cut into patterns that are formed into the tapered body tube with the aid of powerful presses and precision engineered tooling. After forming, the open seam must be silver soldered (welded, as the term relates to brass) to complete the air tight body tube. After the body tube is formed the tone holes are carefully located and drawn, from the inside out, in a process known as extrusion. Precision machinery locates the exact center for each tone hole before the extrusion process proceeds. This is an extremely critical phase of the manufacturing process because if the tone hole location is the slightest off its exact mark the intonation of the instrument will suffer. Tooled forms or molds keep both the inner and outer edges of the tone hole in perfect shape and attitude during the extrusion process. After extrusion, the tone hole rims are machined to exact height and leveled into plane so they match up with the keywork which is to come. By now I can sense that you all are developing a healthy respect and admiration for the sophisticated equipment and skilled craftsmanship required to build a quality saxophone ... Special processes are required to form bells, necks and bows. The bell flare is formed by a process called 'spinning' (center), where the tube spins at high speed while a craftsman applies pressure with a special tool to shape the flare and rolled edge. Visualize a potter at the wheel, gently nudging clay into a desired shape with the hand. The pressures and speeds required to shape brass are of course much different, but the techniques are similar. Right: tapered tubing used to form necks is first bent to the main curve, then pressed over a metal forming tool called a mandrel to complete the shape and press out the flattening needed to properly form the main bend without rupturing the soft tubing metal. Above (right), we see alto, tenor and bari necks, in silver and brass at various stages of forming and polishing. Note that even silver tubing comes from the mill in a dull gray state before it is polished. Critical steps in completing sax necks that are not shown are drilling the octave vent and compressing the neck shoulder to fit the sax body tenon. Yanagisawa makes necks (and bells) of both brass and sterling silver. Silver is even softer than brass and it is very malleable. The bell and neck forming processes discussed on the previous page demonstrate the malleability (a metallurgical term) of brass, which is an alloy containing copper and zinc. Malleability is a relative softness which allows a metal to be shaped, but also includes a characteristic ability to hold it's shape....under reasonable conditions of use. To better understand malleability think about other metals that have only one of the two important components of malleability. Lead is soft, but easily loses or changes shape. Iron stubbornly holds a shape, but due to its brittle nature cannot be worked into complex forms without first being melted and poured into molds. It is its malleability that caused pioneering craftsmen to select brass as the ideal material for forming musical instruments. These craftsmen understood that the ability to easily form and control shape was essential because it is shape and contour that dictate sound. As evidenced by the wonderful Grafton plastic saxophones made in England in the 1950's, shape is more a determinant of sound than is the material of which an instrument is made. Over the years, production wind instruments have successfully been made of a number of materials: wood, silver, brass, plastic and copper, among them. So now, what about CB's annealing clames? I think that CB'S brass is no different than anyone elses. In fact, I would highly surmise that the same brass used to make CB's is used to make other saxophones as well. It's all a bunch of hype. CB states that they have searched the globe for the best materials possible. Japan is a country known for limited natural resources and poor quality metals. Japanese metals have a lot of impurities. Their steel in particular. I just find it rather strange that CB searched the world over and found their best metal for their keys in Japan, as opposed to Switzerland, Italy, the United States, or Russia which all have considerably better metal than Japan. Blue steel springs? Sure, they're made of cobalt steel. They're very hard. Wherever they're made, Taiwan, USA, Italy, this is the best steel you can use for such an application. That's what most reputable companies use today. The Italian leather pads? Well, having played CB's and worked on them, I've found that their pads are very soft, and the leather somewhat thin in comparison to other pads, and the Keilwerth pads in particular are the highest quality I've found. They're a thicker leather. They're also waterproof! Selmer's pads are also better quality than Cannonballs. As for my comment about the French neckstrap, I think this is kind of a silly claim. What difference does the quality of the neckstrap make if the horn is poor quality? And I'm not saying that CB's are poor quality, but of all the things to brag about in a horn, they brag about their neckstrap? That just seems silly to me! Especially since most people probably already have a nice Neotech or something. Tevis....keep your straps and put a little more quality into your HORNS!!! For all of you who continue to support CB, I admire you and respect your opinions. Through the support of loyal customers like you, CB may grow to be the best saxophones available on the market. I do think they have made tremendous strides in recent years, but quality control is definately an issue that this company needs to address.

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                            20. by connsaxman_jim
                              (2336 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              justanothersaxguy, you might want to re-read your post here also. You said that the steel was annealed after working the metal to relieve stress. I mearly stated why this was unlikely due to the distortion to the shape that would be caused by annealing the metal. As I said, I play and collect mostly vintage instruments, and most vintage instruments WERE made using molds. Once again, you have taken my words out of context. I never claimed to have ALL the answers here, but I know enough to know when Cannonball is dishing out a line of CRAP!

                              Reply To Post Yahoo!


                            21. by justanothersaxguy
                              (58 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              but cannonball doesn't anneal the metal to pour it into molds, Jim.

                              Reply To Post


                            22. by justanothersaxguy
                              (58 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              HUH? Could you rephrase that? And, yes, the metal is annealed after it is shaped.

                              Reply To Post


                            23. by justanothersaxguy
                              (58 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              Oh, yeah. Here it is right here. "the brass is annealed to remove any impurities and then poured into molds." A strong ego is a terrible thing to waste

                              Reply To Post


                            24. by connsaxman_jim
                              (2336 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              I said: "I understand what you're saying, but saxophones are produced from molds." I meant IF saxophones are produced from molds, the way they were years ago. Today, most saxophones are made from sheet brass that is cut into patterns and formed into the body shapes using hydraulic presses. I'm not sure how many parts today are made using molds. See my other posts as to why I think CB's claim about the annealment of their brass is false.

                              Reply To Post Yahoo!


                            25. by saxyjeff
                              (25 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              LMAO....You know why these threads never die? I think its because we all feel compelled to have the last word...ad infinitum. Jim your anger only brings out more of the same of what the title of my sub-thread points do. Brother no doubt you are probably one hell of a blues player. All your notes your posting in the column are heavily flated. I'm really sorry but you stepped in it again, and shame on you boyo. You know guys, my 9 year old spent all week taking placement tests. He placed 98% in the nation for his age group in reading and comprehension. They say he's reading at the 7th grade level. Studies indicate the average American exiting High School (Sorry I dont have the exact reference but you can search for it) is conversant at about the 8th grade level. I dont know what level you're at Jim, et al, but you clearly are not comprehending my posts (all two of them) very well. So now I gots to go through your last post line by line to address your shortsightedness...that is if you're still reading this post. Another disclaimor from me: I'm a big nut about sworsmithing and edged weapons but I AM NOT A SWORDSMITH NOR A BLACKSMITH NOR A SMITHY OF ANY KIND. This really applies for the later rebuttals when we get to the "ringing" of the Horns...stay tuned. To paraphrase your post: 1) "Jeff says "Like I said this started out as a thread from a kid asking for some advice about CB's and I expect he meant from people who were happy with them." BUT READ THIS!!! "I currently don't own any but will soon after my Series III Tenor and Mk VI Soprano clear Ebay." How do you know how well they REALLY hold up if you yourself do not own one, and I seriously doubt your are qualified enough as a repair tech to notice the flaws in Cannonball craftsmenship." says Jimbo. Saxyjeff Response: As I previously stated for all in this thread , I'm not a paid endorser of CB. I DO NOT currently own a CB horn. However I also told this thread that at least I DID OWN a CB Tenor 5 years ago. I played the hell out of it for 2 years and sold it to my friend who plays the hell out of it and it looks and sounds nearly equal to the fine Series III Selmer I'm selling right now on Ebay. I HAVE BEEN an owner and admirer of the CB instruments for as many years. I also owned a CB silver plated alto that I played for 4 years. I also own a Martin Committee II that I bought from SaxQuest and last year I sold the alto when I bought Pauls incredible Selmer BA (i'll never sell this nor my VI tenor). So...Jim I dont understand your point. I'm further concerned because if you cannot comprehend and retain something this "fresh"...how am I to seriously consider the objective credibility of any of your opinions. You cant even get my posts straight. Regarding my credentials as repair tech...I dont remember saying I was. Speaking as a previous owner of two older pro versions of CB saxophones I can say that those horns, and all the horns of colleagues who have bought/play them (and dont forget to consider the long list of Recording Artists I included in Post #2 who own them and use them daily...they do count dont they Jim?)..all horns I HAVE PERSONALLY been introduced to played well. They did not all play great. Mine were good but as forerunners not as good as the fine instruments coming out now. Anyway My Two years on Tenor and 4 yrs on Alto CB kinda put me ahead of you Jim in the personal experience dept.... 2) "I feel that a lot of Cannonball's claims are highly overstated. It's a million dollar sales pitch for an $1800 horn!"-Jim Connsaxman personal quote 5/1/05...You heard it hear folks... Saxyjeff Response: Once again Jim this your own personal conjecture. Of course you then copy and paste CB's entire feature list and then once again, in great Jim Tradition, add your personal conjecture without offering any relevant references af any peer or non-peer reviewed literature to support your "personal opinions". Maybe Sheryl or Tevis would like to come back online and address their marketing program. Sounds pretty grassroots to me. I have yet to see any CB marketing...it's all pretty much word of mouth by dealors and player to player. But by all means...hang on to your demons. 3) Jim Says: "Let me explain what I mean about the quality of Cannonballs. This is right from their website. Big Bell Global Series was given its name partly because we have searched the globe to find the best materials. Quoting CB: "a. Keys (Japan) -- The brass for our keys is from Japan. Metallurgy tests show that our keys are as hard or harder than other major brands. The hardness of this alloy helps your saxophone stay in optimum adjustment." Jim timidly adds :): "WRONG!!! This is a lie! Japan and Taiwan BOTH import steel and brass from the United States and Russia because their metal in general is very poor quality! "... Saxyjeff Response: So Jim...you prefaced this part by saying "let me explain why" and then, once again you most disappointingly did not. Why Jim is it a lie? Based on what information are you stating this? Do you have insider information? Have you copies of their studies that show that they are indeed "lying" about this statement? Why is it so hard to believe? Because you are a mechanical engineer are you automatically also an geological expert in world mineral deposits and mining production levels? How about just considering your opinions pertaining to just JAPAN and TAIWAN? What studies are you referring to? Once again statements without support. I'm a doctor and my science background is every bit as indepth as yours. As a fellow colleague of the "hard" sciences did your professors teach you from a textbook of facts and references or just idle conjecture like you are depositing in this forum? (and in your diaper) Lets look at this from another point of view. Why does Japan and Taiwan import so much raw material (of whatever quality). My reference for brass composition: www.scottecatalog.com/glossary.nsf/0/ea389096db2056b5852568a9005fe840?OpenDocument Hey Engineer. Is brass anelement or a compound? Brass is a mixture of Copper and Zinc. Brass alloys can be harder or softer depending on the ratios of one element to the other and also on the addition of any other elements that might be added affect its physical properties, performance, color...etc. I dont know who makes the brass for CB keys (though I'm sure you and your crystal ball know) however why couldnt some brainiac (and Taiwan and Japan have a few) have already figured out a FORMULA (or even created a custom recipe) for CB's particular needs? They (CB) may be lying out their teeth....but where is your hard proof?? Will you please share it with us so that we can then hold those clever Lying Liars Accountable? Just because Asia imports raw materials from the rest of the world for refabircation into just about everything the rest of the world consumes (cause they do it better, faster, cheaper and with less employee bitching) doesnt mean they only produce and export crap. These landlocked geographically small countries only have so much raw material. Stuff has been made in Japan and Taiwan since I was born 42 years ago. Of COURSE they have to import. Where do you think we get the raw materials for our tires? Arizona? What do you really think Viet Nam was all about. lol...Communists? Crappy Brass? OUTSOURCING is the term used for essentially farming out to other companies to provide you with services and/or products that are created/performed to your EXACT specifications. This is done to insure the highest quality of services and product since it is unlikely that a craftsman is an equally skilled jack of all trades. Here's some definitions of Brass and that alloys's elements: Def of Alloy: A mixture of two or more metals such as bronze which is made of copper and tin. Alloys are not compounds but mixtures of metals disolved into each other which crystalize into seperate crystals on solidifying. Alloys often have properties much different than their constituants. Greater strength, hardness or different melting point. Density is almost exactly the sum of the ratio of the densities but not quite. Almost all metals and alloys have small amounts of "trace elements" that are impurities but sometimes contribute to the alloy's properties. Reference Page: www.anvilfire.com/FAQs/glos_faq_index.htm Here is the Def of the Element Copper: copper Element number 29, symbol Cu, a metal (Latin, cuprum). A red ductile metal occasionaly found in its native state. Copper is an excelent conductor of heat and electricity only second to silver in electrical conductivity. Copper is the primary metal in the alloys brass, bronze and monel. In small amounts copper is used to make aluminium, silver and gold harder. As small amount ads corrosion resistance to steel. American pennies, before 1983 were actually bronze, not copper. Copper is too soft and would wear very rapidly. New American pennies are zinc with a copper coating. Average density of copper, 8.96 g/cm3, .3237 lbs/cuin, 559.35 lbs/cuft Reference page:www.anvilfire.com/FAQs/glos_faq_index.htm Definition of Zinc: zinc Element number 30, symbol Zn, a metal (German, Zink). A bluish white ductile metal known to the ancients in brass but was not produced seperately until the 18th century. Zinc is the secondary metal in the alloy brass, naval brass, alloy C28000 being 60% copper 39.2% zinc ans 2% tin. Zinc is used to make hard varieties of aluminium and aluminium is used to make light strong zinc casting alloys. The United States penny has been made out of copper clad zinc since 1983. Average density of zinc, 7.133 g/cm3, .2577 lbs/cuin, 445.30 lbs/cuft Los Alamos National Laboratory periodic table entry zinc Reference Page: www.anvilfire.com/FAQs/glos_faq_index.htm Now regarding the mysterious "Ringing of The Horn". I own several swords of varying alloy composition, tempering and design. The heat treating processes that makes the metal of these horns "harder" is done possibly (notice how I say possibly vs absolutely like some folks who know more than me) make them less prone to dings and dents. It also makes the metal respond and vibrate differently resulting in different harmonics and likely (not absolutely my critics) MAY result in the way the instrument speaks throughout the entire range as well. Clearly the analogy of the ringing sound of steel swords on each other or shields, or merely from drawing the blade from the sheath/scabbard (highly overdone on the big screen anyway) to the resonance of these tempered metalled horns is what they are getting at with there remark..That is my OPINION anyway and may not be factual. However this may entirely be an exagerration by CB's Marketing Copy person than an actual effect that is manifest in their horns. Then Again...maybe they mean exactly that. Maybe we can get CB to show us an actual video of the clashing of their horns against each other or shields and record the harmonics issued forth from those elemental interactions. Perhaps Jim has already tested this in his Dexter's Laboratory already with some of his CB overnite sleepovers. We may never know. CB can you help us out here please? Here are some interesting URLs to some actual blade smiths in some very remote parts of the world turning out some really crappy products with crappy resources: www.himalayan-imports.com www.himalayan-imports.comkhukuri-history.html www.himalayan-imports.comkami.html www.himalayan-imports.comfaq/Ceremony.htm Lets Move On Shall We? 3) CB Claims: "b. Blue Steel Springs (Italy) -- Our quality Blue Steel Springs are imported from Italy." Jim Agrees: "The blue tempered steel springs from Italy are good quality." Saxyjeff Response: Why? What is so good about those Italian Springs? Who told YOU? Who is the Manufacturer? Or perhaps you did some personal analysis in your home lab when you took your sample CB horns home? Are these the same guys who specialize in Blue Springs that Selmer, Yamaha, Yani and other high end sax manufacturers rely on? Please enlighten me. Just because you agree with them doesn't make your comments any more credible than when you disagree with them. 4) CB says: "c. Pads (Italy) -- Our pads are quality pads from Italy with a nickel sound resonator. In the Fall/Winter of 2002 we upgraded to treated pads that are not prone to stick." Jim Continues: "The German leather pads that are used by Keilwerth are much better quality than the Italian pads. The Italian pads are thinner and wear more easily." Saxyjeff Response: Hmmmmmm....Who is the company that Keilwerth uses for their pads? Does Keilwerth make their own? Do they come from some remote part of Germany or where? What Italian company does CB get their pads from? For that matter how many companies in Italy make saxophone pads at all? How do you know they are thinnerand wear easier? Where is the scientific data??? Why are you hiding this info from us Herr Engineer? lol...Did you analyze these at home too? where is your personal and/or published data? Would you please post it for us/me so that I can make an informed decision? At least let CB know where they are weak so that maybe you can aid them in their efforts to make a better quality product since you are such an expert on their quality. 5) CB Claims: "d. Brass (Taiwan) -- We were very particular when we chose the brass for our saxophones from Taiwan. It is annealed (heat treated) which increases its strength. The brass for the body and neck is annealed twice and the brass for the bell is annealed three times. Most importantly though, this particular brass allows for a "ring" in the sound that sets Cannonball Saxophones apart from their competition." Engineer Metallurgist Professional Blues Flated 5th Player Jim continues: "This is also a load of CRAP!!! I am a mechanical engineer by trade. The carbon in the metal is what gives it strength, but high carbon steel like cast iron for example, doesn't have much malleability. In other words, it doesn't bend, it breaks. By annealing the brass, they make it SOFTER, not stronger. The brass has to be annealed to be workable, but as for Taiwanese brass being the best available? It's NOT!!!"---Emphasis Jim. Saxyjeff Responds: Jim, Jim, Jim there certainly is a load of crap and I think you really need to change your diaper. When is the last time you held a steel sax? I never have. Carbon isn't usually a component of brass either. But you're right about annealing, it can make brass weaker. But guess what? Its also part of the process of making brass HARDER TOO....read-on oh Skeptical One... Here's a definition of annealing of steel: Definition: Heating steel to, and holding at a suitable temperature, followed by relatively slow cooling. The purpose of annealing may be to remove stresses, to soften the steel, to improve machinability, to improve cold working properties, to obtain a desired structure. The annealing process usually involves allowing the steel to cool slowly in the furnace. Reference: metals.about.com/library/bldef-Annealing.htm Another reference states: Annealing is the softening of metal by heat treatment. Ferrous metals are annealed by heating to just above the A3 point (a point above non-magnetic that varies with the carbon content), and then cooling slowly. For common carbon steels the cooling can be done in dry ashes, lime powder or vermiculite. For high carbon and alloy steels annealing requires cooling in a furnace that has temperature controls so that the rate of cooling is no more than ~20°F/hr. Non-ferrous metals such as aluminium, BRASS, copper and silver are annealed by heating to a low red and quenching in water (the opposite of steel). Reference page:www.anvilfire.com/FAQs/glos_faq_index.htm Using heat can indeed soften metal so that it can be more readily worked into desired shapes. Heat can also be used to temper or harden metal. The description of heating to harden a metal to improve resonance, durability and to get that"ringing" effect is really not the definition of annealing regarding steel but may be for brass. Lets look further at some opinions and definitions from some people that live in that world: definition of tempering: tempering Verb, the adjustment of temper. In ferrous metalurgy tempering is the reheating of steel to some temperature below the hardening temperature after hardening in order to reduce the brittleness which also reduces the hardness. The tempering range for steel is from 350°F (177°C) to as high as 1350°F (732°C). It is recommended to temper almost all ferrous metals after hardening. See heat treating. In non-ferrous metals (such as BRASS) the temper (hardness) is adjusted by heat treating, aging or work hardening. See references on specific metals for methods. Saxyjeff adds- "Although this refers to steel this verb applies to the tempering process all metals when undergoing this type of process". Reference page:www.anvilfire.com/FAQs/glos_faq_index.htm Here's a quote from a metalsmith regarding hardening of brass through heating (annealing). This is what I believe CB is referring too in their discription: Annealing Non-Ferrous (including BRASS) Material: Almost all non-ferrous metals are annealed by heating to somewhere just below the melting point and then cooling in air or by quenching in water. Quenching in water is a convienience. Alpha brasses (64-99% copper) are annealed by heating to 700 to 1400°F (the hotter the softer) and can then be be quenched. Alpha-beta brasses (55 to 64% copper) are annealed at the same temperature and can be hardened slightly by quenching from the annealing temperature. The key word above is slightly. Cold working produces a much greater degree of hardness. The amount of hardening is so low my copper alloys book does not give specific data. If quenched from the low end of the annealing temperature there would be no disceernable difference. Common brazing alloy is: Cu 56 - 60% Sn 0.8 - 1.0 Fe .25 - 1.20 Al, Si, Mg, Pb trace (no greater than 0.1% each) Zn balance Reference page: www.anvilfire.com/FAQs/glos_faq_index.htm Can We Move On Now Please? 6) CB Claims: "e. Mouthpieces (Germany & USA) -- We offer our dealers a choice between a jazz or a classical mouthpiece. Most of these are hard rubber, made in Germany and faced in the USA. Our baritone sax classical mouthpiece is plastic and made in the USA. Our baritone sax jazz mouthpiece (new) is hard rubber and made in USA. You can read more about our mouthpieces in FAQ page. Jim Says: "I won't argue with this" Saxyjeff Responds: Thank God!!! 7) CB Says: " f. Neckstraps (France) -- Our Big Bell Global Series saxophones come standard with a quality neckstrap from France." Jim Just goes Ballistic (Diaper Rash): "Now THIS is something to brag about! Everyone knows the importance of a FRENCH neckstrap! They are simply the BEST available.....SO much better than a NEOTECH.......NOT!" Saxyjeff Responds some more: Gee...is this what happens when cut someone a little slack in the mouthpiece section? Dammit CB quit giving away free mouthpieces and neckstraps you Jerks!!! :) And now the 8th and Final Commandment: 8) Just Jim now, Blowing Gideon's Trumpet: "AND ABOVE ALL ELSE....The quality of TAIWANESE craftsmenship, although considerably better than the Chinese, is not on par with the quality of the German, French, American and Japanese horns." IS MOSES IN THE HOUSE????!!!! Saxyjeff Respose: Do I really need too? Famous Last Words(?) "Anyway, I'm done with this post! Like I have always said. Regarding ANY saxophone new or used, PLAY IT BEFORE YOU BUY IT!!!" Saxyjeff Respons: This the GREATEST STATEMENT YOU'VE STATED IN ALLLLLLLLL OF THIS THREAD...I cant agree with you more!!! Saxyjeff Closes: Look People...I know its fun to watch trivial daytive drama crap like Maury Povich, Rikki Lake...CNBC. But hey, cmon now. If you're going to report opinions based on personal bias then just MAKE IT CLEAR that its your opinion and dont hide behind your CyberSpace Persona. You hold yourself to a higher standard then be prepared to defend your position when you make Absolute Statements of (Unsubstantiated) Facts. There is no shame in having an opinion(s) and sharing them. I certainly don't claim to be an expert on all things. But for us to make claims based on "Invisible Evidence" then we arent necessarily "stupid"....but we certainly may be "Silly". Ignorance is really not "Bliss". I hope this post can now move in a different direction. I'm not interested in flaming anyone but I have clearly responded without meaning to directly offend anyone. However indirect offensive comments have been made such that opinions have been used in place of fact...My level of education and continuing education as a lifetime student of life and the arts just cannot abide that. Once again refer to this page and checkout what these Cats have to say: www.cannonballmusic.com/artists.php Peace to all, and once again, thank you Sheryl and Tevis. Jeffery Wood

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                            26. by connsaxman_jim
                              (2336 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              JESUS!!!! Can you possibly ramble on any more about it? I mean, for crying out loud! Why don't you just post their whole flippin' web page on here! I have a college degree, and I assure you, my reading and comprehensive skills are college level, but with your posts being as LONG as they are, and as many times as you contradict yourself, I have gotten LOST AND CONFUSED! You want to twist my words and carry on, hell bent on having the last word, but your disrespect towards me is uncalled for. I could care less what other people think of CB! If you love them GREAT! If you hate them, GREAT! but aren't we entitled to our own opinions? I have never owned a Cannonball, but I have played several of them. I can distinguish between a high quality instrument and a mediocre intermediate instrument. As I've said, the Cannonballs have gotten better, but you seem to think they're the greatest thing since sliced bread, and I disagree. You're absolutely entitled to your opinion, but when you start attacking me, I think you're taking it a little too far. I'll conclude my post by saying that in the time it took you to write all that, I was probably getting laid! And now. I am going to bed, and if you want to further dispute what I have said, BECAUSE YOU JUST HAVE TO HAVE THE LAST WORD, then by all means, HAVE AT IT!!! AS I HAVE SAID MANY TIMES.....PLAY A SAXOPHONE BEFORE YOU BUY IT!!! If you like CB, BUY IT!!! If you don't.....check out other horns. This has gone far beyond debate and now it's personal! You are just one of many examples as to how someone with a little knowledge, strong opinions, and high speed internet access can be dangerous!

                              Reply To Post Yahoo!


                            27. by saxyjeff
                              (25 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              Gee Jim, Personal? Hardly. Go back and read the tone of your post I responded to....all those Exclamations are your's my friend. And you prefaced the whole thing by misquoting me. Every word you wrote was carefully outlined to prevent confusion as I rebutted each statement. Sometimes its a bitter pill to swallow when closeminded opinionists are confronted by someone who has the ability to logically challenge there continued inane statements. As I said in my first posting...I am not an paid shill or otherwise of the CB company. I will point out BS when I encounter it after all reasonable attempts to elicit a satisfactory explanation have failed. So many of you negative posters are merely here to throw around your unfounded comments and you, Jim, are probably the most intelligent, and probably musically talented, of them all. You should know better and be more open. Yeah I heard whe you begrudgingly through CB a few bones. But brother I gave you clear opportunity to state your facts and to buttress them with clear concise facts other than your "personal" rhetoric. All you can do is hide behind your embarassment and accuse me of attacking you personally. Sorry buddy. There never has been a "debate" from your end. I at least offered the rudiments of "references" for my rebuttals to your continued, heated inappropriate commentary. Those exact same comments would be legitimate, without having to change your position, if you would just buttress your hyperbole with some facts.... Personal? Not hardly. BTW...when do you get to decide when a debate is over? when you can no longer stand toe-to-toe? Damn you've had no problem repeatedly being a know it all regarding CB technology, history and "secret" innerworkings for a couple of years now on this thread alone. If you dont like the food being served in this cafeteria from now on then go eat somewhere else. You keep coming back to me..I am only responding to you since my initial GENERIC postings to the thread. Postings geared towards education about the company and its product and have offered choices for others to seek knowledge outside of this narrowminded thread. My friend I have respect for you. You are an accomplished musician, technician, historian (not about CB:) and probably a great humanitarian. If you cant defend yourself without logic and research vs. bs then retire yourself, again. I'm sorry you felt I was attacking you...I clearly, painstakingly addressed your vehement last posting, addressing me btw, in a matter and a fashion that dissected it entirely. I rebutted your comments and supported my "opinions" with reasoning and data other than just my "opinion"...You had every opportunity to respond but it is apparent you cant...and know you are embarrassed and pissed. Hey....to all you who post in this thread from now on...back your opinions up with "facts" not BS. At least what you might think are the facts. Then at least we can continue to have intelligent dialogue on our continued disagreements and openly discuss them as mature adults. You young'ns that haven't learned respect I'll warn you I have no patience for you and might be prone to ignoring you. Jim I expect more from a guy like you because you should know better. When other guys (other than myself) ask you for your "reasons for your opinions" please respect them and give it some real thought and at least be able to cut and paste something to help them understand. Your refusal to respect their requests, and the other negative mongers as well, serve only to make you less credible. Anyway if you're not here to share more than your BS opinion then why are you in here anyway. Yeah I wrote a couple of long posts....All my verbage still hasn't added up to the sum total of all your dubious posts my friends. The BS stops now. Lets all try to have some stimulating conversation for a change or STFU, ok? I'm sorry about the diaper jokes Jim..but I couldnt resist. I'm looking forward to all the exciting feedback I'm sure tomorrow will bring..lol God I hope you immature guys at least try to think before you start writing a bunch of quick emotional posts....Just try to wait for 10 mins and think about this...and re-read my other posts over and over before reacting. You might just learn something if you allow yourself. Goodnite! Jeff

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                            28. by justanothersaxguy
                              (58 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              have you gone to bed yet?

                              Reply To Post


                            29. by justanothersaxguy
                              (58 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              Hey, people, can't we.... uh.... can't we all j - ju- just g-get along?

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                            30. by justanothersaxguy
                              (58 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              but you said you last response was your last one....

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                            31. by west
                              (242 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              You have obviously done your homework and that's good, but you are being pretty harsh. There are probably many, highly qualified people with enough experience to post their opinion's here. Anyone who has ever even tested a CB is qualified to give their opinions, whether they are 5th graders or pros. Also, you don't have to be famous or even be known to be considered a pro. Jim , as far as i'm concerned is a very reliable source of information and is more than qualified to state his opinion with more than a little conviction. I understand your argument, but you don't need to sound so harsh. I am not sure how long you've been a member of this site but i don't think i've ever seen your posts, and as far as i'm concerned, i would take jim's advice over yours. Also, everyone is a "Real Musician" Over and out.

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                            32. by west
                              (242 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              I would go after any brand that i didn't think was up to par. For instance, i am not a fan of selmer. The prices suck big time and i don't like the darker tone i get with those horns. I prefer the brighter tone of a yamaha

                              Reply To Post


                            33. by west
                              (242 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              Justanothersaxguy-I was writing the post you see under you when i heard that a new post was posted(yours) The message under you is not against you, it is for Saxyjeff(is that the right name?) And saxy jeff- i know it sounds harsh, My top blew . i reread it and it did sound evil so i'm sorry for that, but your posts just seemed sort of rude. Sorry

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                            34. by justanothersaxguy
                              (58 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              I know you didn't direct that at me, but I feel where his edge is coming from (though I think you are right; it's not good to overreact - even if you feel your "opponent" in an arguement has been doing so with great regularity). Maybe YOU can answer (honestly) why you think it is that a Keilwerth fan never calls Selmer crap; a Yani fan never calls a Keilwerth crap, etc, etc. They will say they prefer theirs to the other, yet respect the other brand as "equally worthy - just not personally preferred." But they dump on Cannonball. I don't ever hear a Cannonball owner calling the others crap. WHY IS THAT SUCH A ONE-WAY STREET? (I do again say I feel this is a psychological phenomenon, much akin to the Kenny G bashing that goes on when he seems to be the sax player all other sax players either love or love to hate.) WHY IS CANNONBALL BASHING SUCH A ONE WAY STREET? The defenders are just screaming up and down that Cannonball deserves an honest unbiased chance. Why is that so hard to do?

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                            35. by justanothersaxguy
                              (58 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              OK. Now I have to respond to MY OWN POST. This IS getting really bad. I just went back and re-read what you said, that I reacted to, and you knocked Selmer. SEE? This tells me that a) people DO knock the other big names, and b) sometimes I don't really listen, either. I once heard a theologian, named Donald Gray Barnhouse, once say that, "most people, when they say they are thinking, are really only re-arranging their prejudices." I guess we're all guilty. I just hope that people will come around to the possibility that Cannonball is just as valid, just as legitimate as the others. I hope I can stop myself from posting here on this thread again. There. Now someone provoke me. I dare you.....

                              Reply To Post


                            36. by west
                              (242 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              I think i can help with your question. I'm not sure if CB is newer than the other companies, but that can be a reason. People might feel safer with the longer running brand than with a newer co. It could be as much as the look , feel, or sound that they don't feel comfortable with and it really can be a trick of the mind. Other musicians might be so used to a certain brand that they don't test others and firmly believe that that particular brand is the best. Of course the true reason mght not ever be known

                              Reply To Post


                            37. by west
                              (242 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              I just remembered what i was going to say. I think(If CB is a newer brand) That they just need to establish themselves firmly and convince people that they aren't going away. Then people might think that they aren't horrible horns because the co. was strong enough to stick around

                              Reply To Post


                            38. by GordonGekko
                              (27 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              After reading through some of these posts the only conclusion that I can reach is, some people have WAY TOO MUCH TIME on their hands! Regards, GG

                              Reply To Post


                            39. by connsaxman_jim
                              (2336 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              No kidding GG! I just read saxman1919's post, and basically he said EVERYTHING I have felt and tried to express about Cannonball saxophones. Their quality is very inconsistant. I have played Cannonball horns that sounded and played really good, and others that had intonation problems, and other issues. I have seen them nearly brand new with warped, unlevel tone holes, and tone holes that were rough and not properly filed. The overall quality still has plenty of room for improvement. Yes, the same could be said for some of the Selmer horns I have seen, and Yamahas, although I do think their quality control is at least a little better than Cannonball at the moment; though Selmer in particular seems to be slipping. I test a variety of different horns, and when I test them, I don't just play them for a few minutes! I usually put about 5 hours on the horn, try a few different mouthpiece set-ups and maybe even make a few adjustments. I am experienced enough as a player and a tech to recognize things like the unlevel tone holes, and improper key height adjustment, and other issues I have seen with the Cannonballs. I think many of Cannonball's claims about their Big Bell Global Series are highly exaggerated and outright false! I would be happy to share with you WHY in more detail, but unlike Jeff, I have a life and other things to do and none of you probably care anyways right? But if any of you REALLY want to know, email me, and I will get back to you. No matter what make of saxophone you buy; try it first if at all possible and if you order it online or by mail and you can't try it first, make sure they have a return policy and you can send it back if you're unhappy. ESPECIALLY if you're buying a USED or a VINTAGE horn, make sure it's complete and if at all possible, PLAY IT FIRST!

                              Reply To Post Yahoo!


                            40. by Sheryl Laukat
                              (6 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              Jim and other readers, we do anneal the metal in our horns, we do get our brass for keys from Japan, we are particular about the alloy we use, we have chosen it carefully, and it is from Taiwan. A higher copper content helps with ring, but as someone stated 100% copper is too soft, and we don't prefer the sound anyway. Yes, we have experimented with 100%copper, as well as many different alloys.. If anyone were to find an unlevel tone hole or any other problem, it should be reported immediately to their dealer. Quality control is extremely important to us. We want to go the extra mile to be sure customers are happy. I don't recall bragging about the French neck strap, just stating that it is part of the package. If a player wants another kind of neckstrap, they're free to go purchase it. Our horns are making a mark in Tokyo and if you know the culture there, you know that quality is of the utmost importance.. We will easily sell 6000 saxophones this year, and we actually have very few complaints. The complaints we have, we take seriously and try constantly to improve. We have increased our production significantly, purchased a 12,000 sq. ft bldg. here in Utah to give us more room, and are still having trouble keeping up with demand. It's not uncommon to have several models backordered for 2 months. I'll be going to Taiwan in a few weeks and when I get back I'll give a detailed explanation of our annealing process since it's been one of the causes of debate. I hope you will consider Cannonball as one of your choices. Sheryl Laukat, CEO Cannonball

                              Reply To Post


                            41. by west
                              (242 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              You sounded so nice. If you're really who you say you are that is amazing. Don't you have to deal with alot of people and their complaints on a regular basis? Anyhow, i figured that when i need a new instrument again, i will test the CB. The power of words people. FYI: I'm just saying, if you ever get complaints about your customer service department, try to fix it. I hate companies that don't care about the customer(I'm stating an overall fact, not pointimg your co. out). There are so many companies that don't care. The company's customer service always plays a big factor in whether or not i will stick/use that company. Anybody else agree?

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                            42. by justanothersaxguy
                              (58 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              Yeah, it's really her - Mrs. Cannonball herself. And she's very nice. They're very real people (well, firsthand, I can only speak about her, since I've never spoken to Tevis. But I've spoken to Sheryl before, and she's very professional, and courteous. They do take things seriously.) I bet she'll even know almost as much about how Cannonball saxophones are annealed as Jim the Con man does.

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                            43. by connsaxman_jim
                              (2336 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              Dear Mrs. Cannonball, I think it says a lot that someone as busy as I'm sure you are would take the time to respond to a post such as this. That really means a lot. I restore mostly vintage horns, Conn and Buescher in particular. I have played several Cannonball saxophones and although I am not completely sold on your product, I must say that the last 2 models I played really did impress me. A member on another post was looking for a jazz saxophone, and I did mention Cannonball as one that he/she should check into. The first experience I had with Cannonball was with a used Knight alto that came into a friend's music store. The saxophone was about 4 years old at the time, and hadn't been played very much. I checked over the saxophone and played it a little in the store. This was my first experience with a Cannonball saxophone. It seemed to play fairly well in the store. I took the sax for the weekend and used it on a jazz gig that I played. I tried a few different mouthpiece combinations, and I had problems with the horn's intonation, and I couldn't get a sound that I really liked. The sax was bright, and the projection and resonation was very good, but I thought the sax sounded a little thin. After playing the sax for a few hours, I decided that Cannonball, like so many other more modern saxes I have tried, just wasn't for me. I'm a very hard person to please when it comes to sound. Around the middle part of December after reeding this post, a person had suggested that I try one of the new Big Bell Global Series saxophones, and I really wanted to try a Cannonball tenor. A friend of mine who is an excellent tenor player was playing a Cannonball tenor; Iforget what model you call it; the Raven I think it was, while his Mark VI was being repaired. I offered to swap horns with him for the night and let him take my mint King Super 20, while I played the Cannonball. I really liked this horn. With the Otto Link Super Tone Master, it sounded really good, and played very easy. It was also very bright, and LOUD. It just felt; I don't want to say cheap, but, as if something was missing. Maybe it was just not what I am used to. Me and my Conn 10M, which I have been playing since I was 10 years old have really bonded over the years. My most recent experience with Cannonball came with another alto which I recently tried that was less than a month old when I had the pleasure of testing it. If you were to blindfold me and tell me I was listening to a King Silversonic, I would have believed you! It sounded fantastic with an Otto Link Tone Edge mouthpiece. I played the horn for hours and couldn't put it down. It was considerably better than the other Cannonball saxophones I have tried. I was very pleased, but still not completely sold. I think the quality of Taiwanese craftsmenship has gotten considerably better in recent years. For many years, they lacked the resources and technology to compete with products made in Germany, The United States and other parts of Europe. Now, this is not the case. I do question the quality of Asian metals though. Working in the automotive industry, I don't work with a lot of brass, but it just seems odd that a country known for having poor metals and limited natural resources is where you found your best brass. I'm a little unsure about the annealment process, but I'm starting to get the idea here, based on information I have read. My question was; how is the metal annealed after being formed into a saxophone body without distortion, as justanothersaxguy had suggested. I think the answer is, and please correct me if I am wrong, the brass is annealed before it is milled, and then annealed again before it is cut into the patterns and formed into a saxophone body. This would make much more sense. I do think quality control is one issue that Cannonball needs to address a little closer. As I said, I have seen a couple horns that had issues with their tone holes. On one model the toneholes were warped. The store I mentioned is not a Cannonball dealer, and we advised the customer to contact Cannonball for service since the horn was only a couple years old. I really don't know what the end result was, but I trust that if this customer contacted you, it was taken care of. The other problem I found concerning the tone holes was that a couple of the tone holes were very sharp, and not properly filed and de-burred. Finally, I think that you're well on your way to making some of the best saxophones on the market. I would be a little more favorable towards Cannonball if you were making them in Utah instead of Taiwan, but, I also understand your need to offer your product at a competitive price. Jim

                              Reply To Post Yahoo!


                            44. by justanothersaxguy
                              (58 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              I bet she'll even know almost as much about how Cannonball saxophones are annealed as Jim the Con man does. ----------------------------- OOPS. Must have been a typo - as I meant to sayJim the Conn man. (two n's instead of one.) Sorry about that.....

                              Reply To Post


                            45. by west
                              (242 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              I didn't ctach that. I think you should've left it and see if he had noticed. LOL

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                            46. by justanothersaxguy
                              (58 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              OK. I confess. I did it on purpose. It was supposed to look like a freudian slip. Ya know, I'd swear it was a different Jim that wrote that post yesterday to Sheryl......

                              Reply To Post


                            47. by connsaxman_jim
                              (2336 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              Same Jim, same opinions. Unfortunately through your arrogance, you missed my point the first time around. I won't hold it against you. I've been doing a little more research on Cannonball and the annealment of brass for my own personal knowledge, and what I have learned is quite interesting. I still have some doubts about a few of Cannonball's claims, but I will keep them to myself for the time being. As I said in my response to Sheryl, I am very impressed that she would take the time to respond to this forum, and to me, that says a lot about Cannonball's commitment to quality. I think they're on the right track to having one of the best saxophones available. I do think quality control has room for improvment. I would rather pay a little more for a Cannonball made in the USA, than buy one made in Taiwan.

                              Reply To Post Yahoo!


                            48. by justanothersaxguy
                              (58 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              i see. I stand corrected, and enlightened.

                              Reply To Post


                            49. by eman19
                              (131 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Cannonball Saxes

                              Hey All, not to revive a dead horse, but I tried a tenor from these folks today. It played fairly well. I agree with jim that I'd rather have it made in the US instead of taiwan, but I thought it was a decent playing horn. Tested it out with an otto link super tone master and vandoren zz 3 reeds. I might think of this company when it comes time to replace my True Tone

                              Reply To Post


                            50. by justanothersaxguy
                              (58 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Cannonball Saxes

                              No. Go ahead. Revive it. Really. I was getting a little disappointed with the absence of new revisionist history about the manufacturing techniques of saxophones (you know, like, the brass poured into molds - that kind of stuff). Still waiting to hear from Sheryl when she comes back - she was going to tell us about the annealing process used on their sax bodies. I expect it will be interesting stuff.

                              Reply To Post


                            51. by west
                              (242 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Cannonball Saxes

                              Speaking of reviving dead horses. Did any of you ever see a movie called "The Horse whisperer"? That was the worst piece of crap ever. I'll describe it in a way that those of you who haven't seen it would understand. Here goes...It would rather get a lawn chair and a soda, and watch my neigbors dog take a crap on my lawn, than go see that piece of $%it! Every 5 frickin' seconds, the camera would zoom in on the horse's eye and then the human's eye. As if we;re supposed to get something.It was about as crappy as Lost in Translation. (which was absolutely and positively, a piece of trash) Anyway. Is this just my computer or does everyones computer take a while to get into this forum. When i click on my e-mail link to get here, it takes forever. It usually never does that so i figure that it might be the size of the post or something.

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                            52. by justanothersaxguy
                              (58 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Cannonball Saxes

                              um.... I liked them both....

                              Reply To Post


                            53. by west
                              (242 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Cannonball Saxes

                              You did???????????????????????????????????????????????????? But, is that possible? to like both? At the same time?

                              Reply To Post


                            54. by justanothersaxguy
                              (58 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Cannonball Saxes

                              no. I only liked the one I was watching at the time... I couldn't think about both of them at the same time.... you can only do that if you have a large brain so you can think that saxophones are formed from sheets of brass at the same time you think they are poured in molds. I can't think that way. I am, apparently, too arrogant.

                              Reply To Post


                            55. by west
                              (242 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Cannonball Saxes

                              Anyway. Is this just my computer or does everyones computer take a while to get into this forum. When i click on my e-mail link to get here, it takes forever. It usually never does that so i figure that it might be the size of the post or something. Does that happen to you?

                              Reply To Post


                            56. by EL Seano
                              (255 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Cannonball Saxes

                              Yay! James Carter plays Cannonballs! GO JAMES GO JAMES GO JAMES GO JAMES GO JAMES!

                              Reply To Post


                            57. by Sheryl Laukat
                              (6 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              As promised, here are the details for our annealing process: For the bell, we take a flat piece of brass that has our specified and tested alloy. It is cut to shape, and then bent in half nearly flat by machine. A seam is welded and then hammered flat and filed. The bell is annealed (heat treated). It is put on a bell mandrel and hand hammered into shape. This process for the bell is repeated 3 to 4 times. The neck and body go through similar processes; the neck is annealed 3 times, the body is annealed twice. The heat treatment makes the brass soft, and then the hand hammering makes the brass hard. The whole process of annealing and hand hammering gives strength to the brass. Hand hammering is a great art and very difficult work. We believe the ring in the sound is enhanced with hand hammering, and also enhanced by the specific alloy we choose. I would like to say that quality, along with customer service is our number one priority. Anything mentioned on this site about Cannonball was addressed on our recent trip to Taiwan. Please know that quality is always and continually addressed. You, the players, are very important to us. Thank you, Sheryl Laukat Cannonball

                              Reply To Post


                            58. by EL Seano
                              (255 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              well that settles it! I'm getting an alto cannonball! Thanx Sheryl!

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                            59. by justanothersaxguy
                              (58 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              Sheryl; Thankyou for that information. It sure clears up a lot of misconceptions I had about the process (as I'm sure it will for some others). It certainly sounds like a very painstaking and tedious process; but I can say I sure appreciate it, and have to say that, for the amount of hand-work in the manufacturing process, it sure seems to be a lot of value for the money. And in my opinion, the proof is in the final product. I love my Cannonball, and plan on getting another soon. Thanks again. I'm sure everyone appreciates the info.

                              Reply To Post


                            60. by west
                              (242 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              I think it is very nice of you to go through this site for a small amount of people. I am not in the market for a sax right now, but i will most definitely consider Cannon Ball. I have said somewhere else, or even in this site possibly, that customer service is the MOST important thing to me. Two thirds of all my purchases depend on the customer service. The other third is if i love the sax. Thank you.

                              Reply To Post


                            61. by connsaxman_jim
                              (2336 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              Sheryl, Show me a Cannonball tenor with the bold, brassy sound of my Conn 10M and the punch and brightness of my King Super 20, and I am sold! The last Cannonball alto I played really impressed me! I would definately consider one. I'd like to lay back on the 10M a little and keep it nice since I had it overhauled and restored a couple years ago.

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                            62. by Saxman89
                              (9 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              shut up

                              Reply To Post


                            63. by west
                              (242 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              OOooohhhhh. Sassy LOL This discussion is really taking a toll on how much time it takes to load.

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                            64. by sojoace
                              (3 posts)

                              9 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              my review, I played 2 CB tenors. The action was the easiest I have played except for broken-in old Selmers. The altimisso high G, and A were the easiest palying I have ever experienced. It was a blast playing F,F#,G, and A, and this is probably why some pros like them. However the mid-range sounded thin to me, compared to what I am used to. Maybe another mouthpiece would help. When I have heard other people play them, I noticed the same thinness. I think tenors involve some trade-off, it is hard to get the balance of easy high notes, cutting brightness ,and body, warmth, richness to the sound.

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                            65. by CountSpatula
                              (602 posts)

                              8 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              Kind of weird sitting here reading this post and a Cannonball Adderley song came on. Cannonballs are great horns, some better than others just like the mark VIs. I'd just play on it before buying (and try other brands, never know?)

                              Reply To Post AIM


                            66. by connsaxman_jim
                              (2336 posts)

                              8 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              Now WHY ON EARTH would you go an revive this DEAD HORSE?!!! I think the kid who started this post has now finished college and now has a job working for microsoft or something.... Maybe now he can afford a better horn than a Cannonball! 20 lashings with a wet noodle for reviving this post, and SHAME ON YOU!!!

                              Reply To Post Yahoo!


                            67. by Tenorlysaxyjazzguy
                              (23 posts)

                              8 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              lolol I agree with jim. Wasnt this last discussed in May?

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                            68. by swingstreet
                              (315 posts)

                              8 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              Will someone please kill this thread?

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                            69. by Raven4377
                              (2 posts)

                              7 years ago

                              Reflection

                              I have just spent the last three hours reading this entire thread to kill some time. It has made me a little fonder of my Cannonball Stone Series Raven than I was before.

                              Reply To Post


                            70. by Tranesyadaddy
                              (279 posts)

                              7 years ago

                              Re: Reflection

                              jeez...you don't want to read the new post, but you just have to..

                              Reply To Post


                            71. by Raven4377
                              (2 posts)

                              7 years ago

                              Re: Reflection

                              Sorry, I just felt I should post something after doing all that reading. I do love my sax by the way, over all the other ones I played.

                              Reply To Post


                            72. by cuber
                              (653 posts)

                              7 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              im just posting this cause this is annoying the hell out of me. I didnt read the enitire thing cause i got bored after spending a year of my life listining to you...people, yes, we will call you people for now... complain and yell (figuratvley) at each other. Who ever said cannonball was going to buy out selmer, your a F***ING idiot who probably dosent play sax, my money is that if you do play and instrument, its probably something stupid like the harpsichord. instead of b1tching about "he said this so, but it might mean that cbs arent the best thing sense the bop age, so hes got to be wrong" GROW UP, YOUR ALL ACTING LIKE A BUNCH OF 6TH GRADERS WHO KNOW ABOUT 3 DIFFERENT TYPES OF SAXOPHONES, AND NONE OF THEM ARE WORTH A SH1T, YOU PROBABLY DONT EVEN KNOW HOW TO SWING YOUR EIGHTHS, WITH ALL THE HARPSICHORD TRAINING YOUVE HAD, THATS REALLY SURPRISING, I REALLY DONT KNOW WHY IM STILL WRITING IN CAPS LOCK, BUT IT GETS THE POINT ACROSS, DOSENT IT? you need to grow up, and accept the fact that other people have opions, and if i could go through the internet and arrive at your house, id give you a whack upside the head a couple times, you immature little... i should probably stop before i p1ss off alot more people, but before i stop, REFRENCE 54's ARE WAY OVERPRICED AND THE MATTE FINISH LOOKS LIKE SH1T, YOU KNOW IT DOES, DONT DENY IT. ok, now im done

                              Reply To Post


                            73. by CountSpatula
                              (602 posts)

                              7 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              This requires a moment of silence... a very LONG moment of silence... :)

                              Reply To Post AIM


                            74. by west
                              (242 posts)

                              6 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              I'm not apologizing for this post. I have to say I tried a Raven stone series tenor today. Very nice. Very impressed. Will consider cannonball.

                              Reply To Post


                            75. by justanothersaxguy
                              (58 posts)

                              6 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              Yep. Ya just had to go and do it, didn't ya? (Me, too. I have several of them.....) But it's nice to see someone perpetuate the post... I remember how silly and opinionated some of these posts were, though misinformed.... But then, variety is the spice of life, is it not?

                              Reply To Post


                            76. by speedy_1424
                              (23 posts)

                              6 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              Brandon Fields is an AMAZING musician!!!

                              Reply To Post


                            77. by west
                              (242 posts)

                              6 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              I was wondering if anyone heard of or has seen a cannonball that I believe is a prototype right now, and has a Dragon engraved on it. I would love to see a picture of it, but I wasn't able to find it on Cannonball's website, and one of my buds told me he saw it. Could anyone point me to it?

                              Reply To Post


                            78. by JBTSAX
                              (364 posts)

                              6 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              Here you go: forum.saxontheweb.net/showpost.php?p=754666&postcount=1 I have also seen this sax in person and it is quite unique. The color is the actual color of the brass after being chemically treated. It is not colored lacquer or a coating of some kind. The folks at Cannonball are very creative and are constantly trying to come up with new and exiting ideas. John

                              Reply To Post


                            79. by Tranesyadaddy
                              (279 posts)

                              6 years ago

                              Re: Its Official: 90%+ of all Saxophonists are Certified Cerebrally Challenged

                              That's a very nice looking alto. I'd be proud to have one in my quiver... providing it played OK and was made to last.

                              Reply To Post