Saxophone Forum


by TANGO SIX ONE
(255 posts)
10 years ago

Which saxophone is best for all modern jazz.

The Knights state two makes of horn that are above all the rest .State your favoured horn and the reason why you believe its great.Lets see who agrees with our order of knights.State your musical reason and set up.Are modern day alloys any good?Are they better?

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  1. by blackfrancis
    (396 posts)

    10 years ago

    Re: Which saxophone is best for all modern jazz.

    Tenor: King Super 20 (1953)/ Otto Link (modern)7* or Link Tone Master. Alto: Conn transitional (1933 no 6 preceeding the serial no.)/ Claude Lakey (heavily modified). Soprano: Holton (1912)/ Geo. M. Bundy also heavily modified. I believe these setups are great for me (key words here) because they can go from whisper to rippin' as I require, and they got style. The Blackfrancis states there are no rules in jazz about how you should sound or how you get there. Do what you have to do to find your voice. I know nothing of modern alloys as the newest sax I ever played was a Mk. VII.

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    1. by TANGO SIX ONE
      (255 posts)

      10 years ago

      Re: Which saxophone is best for all modern jazz.

      The Knights find this interesting treansitional now there is a word. The Claude lakey modified, we have spent time in this area ,for what purpose?Ie brighter , darker, louder,We seam to recall on altos they push a lot of power.(Bird Lives)

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      1. by blackfrancis
        (396 posts)

        10 years ago

        Re: Which saxophone is best for all modern jazz.

        Transitional as the rest of the internet uses it- we at Saxquest Forums seem to feel the need for more precise language. As to the Lakey, I once had an old Lakey (maybe early 70s) that I was quite fond of. Got a new one, and while it was OK on my mk. VI, when I got the Conn, I found it to be way too bright and hard to control. I removed the chamber entirely and lowered the baffle so it's a pretty wide open piece now- bigger sound with more body, and strangely enough, still nice and bright. Plays sweetly all the way up and down with lots of control. (so does Jackie McLean)

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        1. by phathorn
          (165 posts)

          10 years ago

          Re: Which saxophone is best for all modern jazz.

          the best sax for all of modern jazz is the one which feels and sounds best to you when you play it.

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        2. by connsaxman_jim
          (2336 posts)

          10 years ago

          Re: Which saxophone is best for all modern jazz.

          First, of the vintage horns, I'd have to sax the Conn 10M tenor an 6M alto. The Conns play so easy, the intonation is very good, and the sound legendary. The King Super 20's are also great jazz horns, along with the H Coufs. Of the more modern horns, I would have to cast my vote in favor of the Yamaha 82Z for modern jazz. Overall, I like the Keilwerth SX-90 the best, but the Yamaha 82Z has a bright, aggressive sound. The Cannonballs sound pretty good too.

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        3. by TANGO SIX ONE
          (255 posts)

          10 years ago

          Re: Which saxophone is best for all modern jazz.

          Response to connsaxmanjim Thats very interesting to the Knights Templar amazingly we agree with just about all of this , back on to the Cannonball business again what similarities have these to vintage horns?What is very interesting to us no one as yet have gone for out and out Selmer route and the reasons why.

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        4. by TANGO SIX ONE
          (255 posts)

          10 years ago

          Re: Which saxophone is best for all modern jazz.

          Ha Ha ok The Knights Templar recognise that to be an answer but which is the one you favour and why. Some people like cheese some people dont.If you asked on the menu for a roast dinner and the main course came with roast beef icecream and bananas and gravy,a lot of people may not regard that as a roast dinner.Particularly if it wasnt cooked properly.But we can see where your coming from.(Bird Lives)

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        5. by blackfrancis
          (396 posts)

          10 years ago

          Re: Which saxophone is best for all modern jazz.

          Regarding that Selmer thing, I have a mk. VI alto which is for sale. It's a great horn. I also must relate an anecdote here to illustrate my Selmer thang, as it were. When I was younger and less wise, I bought (for $175) a Conn 10M. Loved it but I got into that "Now I gotta have a Selmer" mindset. Sold the 10M and bought a 1955 Balanced Action. Also a nice horn and I played it for a couple of years, but something just didn't click. (stand by for happy ending) I got a chance to trade the SBA for a Super 20 straight across and did so at once. I'm sure the other guy thought he got the better of that trade, but I found my voice and have played that King for over 20 years now. So you younger people, beware and heed Phathorn's advice. I still kick myself when I think of that 10M.

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      2. by TANGO SIX ONE
        (255 posts)

        10 years ago

        Re: Which saxophone is best for all modern jazz.

        Response to blackfrancis, The knights guessed that a lakey on Conn doctored like that may arrive playing at 444 plus.(Mclean territory).The knights Templar are constantly beat to quarters and cleared for action,Transitional was delberately spelt wrong.Your set up is very interesting we may check it out (Bird Lives)

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      3. by connsaxman_jim
        (2336 posts)

        10 years ago

        Re: Which saxophone is best for all modern jazz.

        I prefer vintage saxophones, and I have yet to play a new sax that I just wanted to go right out and buy. When I first tried a Cannonball alto 2 years ago, I was not all that impressed. That was an older model called a "Knight" and I really didn't care for the sound; it just sounded tinny and hollow. Back around Christmas time I tried a "Raven" tenor, and I liked it ok, but still it felt like something was missing. I've tried a couple other Cannonballs since, and most recently a silver Big Bell Global Series alto that I really liked. The horn reminded me of a King Silversonic. The Cannonballs have a nice clean, bright sound for jazz. They have been getting a lot of attention in the jazz world also. You have your die-hard Selmer fans, and those guys like me who just LOVE their old Conns, but some of the younger guys are really pushing the Cannonballs, and compared to some of the modern alternatives, I think the Cannonballs have a lot to offer. There does seem to be some inconsistancy in craftsmenship though, and I think Cannonball needs to step up their quality control. I would prefer they were made in Utah where they are based instead of Taiwan.

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      4. by TANGO SIX ONE
        (255 posts)

        10 years ago

        Re: Which saxophone is best for all modern jazz.

        Response to saxmanjim: The Cannonball thing again ,You say a bright sound for jazz.This is totally the opposite of the Knights Templar way of thinking when trying and buying horns. Our philosophy is to obtain the darkest roundest sound possible from a horn then develop the lift (brightness) yourself, then spend the time fine tuning to your specification through yourself reeds and mouthpiece.AS a Jazz player,( and we have not tried them yet) If the Cannonball is a bright sound then we would argue that to be a failing for jazz. Still the knights will check one or 2 out, then be in a better position for comment.(Bird Lives)

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      5. by phathorn
        (165 posts)

        10 years ago

        Re: Which saxophone is best for all modern jazz.

        One would think that cats like Cannonball Adderly playing on a super 20 with the wonderful sound he attained would prove that this philosophy doesn't always hold true. Also remember that jim's basis for comparison in pronouncing Cannonballs to be 'bright' are old 10m's, Chus , and old Bueschers..all pretty damned dark horns.

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      6. by connsaxman_jim
        (2336 posts)

        10 years ago

        Re: Which saxophone is best for all modern jazz.

        Well, I think it depends completely on the type of jass we're referring to also. I would think that a brighter horn would be more preferable for modern jazz, while a darker horn would be more preferable for bob, swing, jazz ballads, and vintage jazz. Ultimately though, it is the set-up that really brings out these characteristics. I think that Cannonballs have the potential of being great MODERN jazz horns

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      7. by phathorn
        (165 posts)

        10 years ago

        Re: Which saxophone is best for all modern jazz.

        I'm still waiting for Jim to find it in his heart to send me an old "New Wonder" era soprano...LOL

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      8. by jamterry
        (573 posts)

        10 years ago

        Re: Which saxophone is best for all modern jazz.

        Get a Mark VI or a Ref 54. If you want the ultimate setup, go to Paul Maslin In Chicago. The Mark VI is a used horn, so be wary of the condition. It could cost you a few hundred dollars to refurbish it. I have two VI's and they pipe. They were set up by Paul Maslin. Best of luck :)

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      9. by SaxMan88
        (318 posts)

        10 years ago

        Re: Which saxophone is best for all modern jazz.

        Jim...I should let you try out my LaVoix tenor...a sweet player IMO. I think my horn could have potential as a jazz horn with the right setup.

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      10. by connsaxman_jim
        (2336 posts)

        10 years ago

        Re: Which saxophone is best for all modern jazz.

        I have a 1925 New Wonder Series II Soprano that I am just putting the finishing touches on. I hope to be playing it in a couple weeks. I've gotten spoiled though playing my Keilwerth SX 90.

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      11. by TANGO SIX ONE
        (255 posts)

        10 years ago

        Re: Which saxophone is best for all modern jazz.

        The knights templar state some very interesting views ,on another thread perhaps explore more.it seams so far to us that although we favour the Conn sax that really vintage Selmer if we look objectivly win the day.As for new horns with vintage quality, then Keilwerth is the animal.We have our reasons for conn which is serious stuff but selmer have a more diverse approach to work on initialy.We would pitch our cons against any sax on a cutting session with confidence.But we say for the majority Selmer vintage wins the day (Bird Lives)

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      12. by SaxMan88
        (318 posts)

        10 years ago

        Re: Which saxophone is best for all modern jazz.

        Oh, I forgot. For those who don't what a LaVoix is it's a Selmer LaVoix. Just clarifying.

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    2. by EL Seano
      (255 posts)

      10 years ago

      Re: Which saxophone is best for all modern jazz.

      Tenor: Dave Guardala 500 Black Nickel Soprano: B&S silver soprano (dunno about the model, will investigate) Knights Rule Trane Lives

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      1. by TANGO SIX ONE
        (255 posts)

        10 years ago

        Re: Which saxophone is best for all modern jazz.

        Response to ELseano Very interesting set up , Black nickel Guardala, does the black nickel make a difference?( Bird lives )

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      2. by martysax
        (148 posts)

        10 years ago

        Re: Which saxophone is best for all modern jazz.

        King Super 20 Tenor, brass bell silver neck, Dukoff D8 or Link 8*. The horn has been versatile enough to go through everything the last 43 years could give it. This is the sound that the Cannonball is looking for, as well as a bunch of others. It sings so full and clear through the full range of the horn.

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      3. by TANGO SIX ONE
        (255 posts)

        10 years ago

        Re: Which saxophone is best for all modern jazz.

        The Knights state a very interesting set up.That sounds like a great horn, and yes they are trying to search for that we agree.Dukoff D8 on a super 20 curious we are sure its great but to us unusual on this set up we think.Weassume are you lifting the sound of the horn alot? (Bird Lives)

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      4. by SaxMan88
        (318 posts)

        10 years ago

        Re: Which saxophone is best for all modern jazz.

        Tango, Being of the utmost knowledge on saxophones I thought you would have known this. Black nickel is just another term for a black lacquered sax. And as we all know, a black lacquer or any other type of heavy lacquer darkens the sound. Da.

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      5. by phathorn
        (165 posts)

        10 years ago

        Re: Which saxophone is best for all modern jazz.

        Actually black nickel and black laquer are two different animals. The black nickel horns are actually plated and not just laquered

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      6. by TANGO SIX ONE
        (255 posts)

        10 years ago

        Re: Which saxophone is best for all modern jazz.

        Response to Phathorn.Great answer, (Bird lives)

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      7. by connsaxman_jim
        (2336 posts)

        10 years ago

        Re: Which saxophone is best for all modern jazz.

        There are so many different finishes available now. I like the looks of silver. The earlier Conn silver saxophones with the goldwashed bells are some of the prettiest saxophones ever made in my opinion. The nickel horns seem to be a little brighter. Really though, it's all a matter of preference, and cosmetics more than the slight difference in sound.

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      8. by connsaxman_jim
        (2336 posts)

        10 years ago

        Re: Which saxophone is best for all modern jazz.

        Charlie "Bird" Parker. Truely one of the most amazing saxophonists of all time! BIRD LIVES!, and may his sweet sound forever embrace the hearts of everyone whom he inspires!

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      9. by blackfrancis
        (396 posts)

        10 years ago

        Re: Which saxophone is best for all modern jazz.

        I have a liking for the old silver plate as well, and my current fave is partially lacquered, i.e. worn off in all the right places. To Saxman, do be cool. To Tango, you've come up with some good topics- maximum respect is how the knights would state it. (Bird does indeed.)

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      10. by EL Seano
        (255 posts)

        10 years ago

        Re: Which saxophone is best for all modern jazz.

        To connsaxmanjim, I couldn't agree more with your enthusiasm for yardbird

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      11. by connsaxman_jim
        (2336 posts)

        10 years ago

        Re: Which saxophone is best for all modern jazz.

        Hi five to Tango, Blackfrancis, El Seano and Phathorn! You cats know what it's all about! Great topic! Not that I plan on checking out anytime soon, but when I do, I'm taking my 10M with me, and Bird, Chu, Desmond and I are going to put on one hell of a show! BIRD LIVES!

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      12. by phathorn
        (165 posts)

        10 years ago

        Re: Which saxophone is best for all modern jazz.

        Have at it Jim! Look for me on the other side of the stage with Mulligan, Dexter, and Cannonball!

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      13. by SaxMan88
        (318 posts)

        10 years ago

        Re: Which saxophone is best for all modern jazz.

        And I'll be on center stage with Kenny G, David Sanborn, Dave Koz, and Josh Redman!

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      14. by martysax
        (148 posts)

        10 years ago

        Re: Which saxophone is best for all modern jazz.

        And I'll be backstage with Lady Day.

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      15. by SaxMan88
        (318 posts)

        10 years ago

        Re: Which saxophone is best for all modern jazz.

        Hey wait a second... I had a backstage pass for her after my performance? What gave you first dibs? *laughs*

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      16. by connsaxman_jim
        (2336 posts)

        10 years ago

        Re: Which saxophone is best for all modern jazz.

        Kenny G, David Sanborn, Dave Koz, and Josh Redman couldn't make the gig! I think they're playing back-up for the BG's or something!

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      17. by SaxMan88
        (318 posts)

        10 years ago

        Re: Which saxophone is best for all modern jazz.

        Ah crap! Well, I guess it's just me...*spot light shines*...well, here goes nuttin...*wink*

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      18. by eman19
        (131 posts)

        10 years ago

        Re: Which saxophone is best for all modern jazz.

        To start this isn't an angry post though it might sound like one. I'd just like to say lay off of Josh Redman. He's a stand up guy and a very good tenor player. The others, well, what ever you want to say.

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      19. by phathorn
        (165 posts)

        10 years ago

        Re: Which saxophone is best for all modern jazz.

        I don't have a problem with Sanborn either....his earlier stuff is much cooler though....

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      20. by SaxMan88
        (318 posts)

        10 years ago

        Re: Which saxophone is best for all modern jazz.

        OMG...Sanborn IMO is like THE CAT!!! On his website the first clip you hear is insane. HOW does he DO THAT???

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      21. by sax_maniac
        (984 posts)

        10 years ago

        Re: Which saxophone is best for all modern jazz.

        Amen, phathorn. Dave's earlier stuff was funky and a little more adventurous.

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    3. by Spike
      (248 posts)

      10 years ago

      Re: Which saxophone is best for all modern jazz.

      I'll tell you the best horn, Mr. "I write in a strange manner:" Whatever one I'm playing.

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