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Forum » Jazz Saxophone » Bigger Jazz Sound by cammes (16 posts) 19 years ago Bigger Jazz Sound Hi i'm new to this site I'm 16 years old, i have been playing for 7 years. I have been first alto in my band since grade 10 and my condctor keeps telling me to play louder but I can't seem to make a bigger sound. So I was just wondering if anyone could help me produce a bigger sound in both jazz and classical. Reply To Post [Report Abuse] Report Abuse Web Address * Your Name Your Email Address Comment
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by saxophones_rock (13 posts) 19 years ago Re: Bigger Jazz Sound I know (almost) exactly how you feel. Except, well.. my situation is just the opposite. My conductor says that i have a fairly good air flow, but i play too loud. He is always reminding me to take less mouthpiece so i dont clash with others. In your case, you may be taking too little mouthpiece, which can create a quieter, puny sound that doesnt amount to much. For what it is worth, try taking more mouthpiece. Who knows, it may help. Hope i could be of some help to you. Good luck!! Reply To Post by jazzyjedi (13 posts) 19 years ago Re: Bigger Jazz Sound Well, let me see. What is your mouthpiece and reed set up. Sometimes, a certain reed or mouthpiece can make all the difference in the world. I use LaVoz medium hard reeds. They give me the resistance I need and force me to use the correct amount of air. Reply To Post by golferguy675 (600 posts) 19 years ago Re: Bigger Jazz Sound Reeds usually dont have near as much influence on volume as the mouthpiece size. You aren't using the C* are you? A lot of highschool players do. If you have a jazz mouthpiece, try at least a 6* if you're playing lead. Also, practice your long tones for about 5 minutes every time you practice. Try and play them with the steadiest air stream possible. It sounds boring and stupid, but it works. Also, how do you blow your airstream? Try thinking about exhaling more than blowing. Hot air, not cold air. Reply To Post by jazzyjedi (13 posts) 19 years ago Re: Bigger Jazz Sound Reeds don't a whole lot of difference, but the right reed can help in many ways. It counts for a lot with me. But anyway, practicing overtones helps your sound as well. Reply To Post by brace_face (43 posts) 19 years ago Re: Bigger Jazz Sound thats really funny you should say that, jazzyjedi. I think reeds make a HUGE difference. If one is too soft, it creates the most tinny sound, its horrible! if you have a reed thats hard enough to suit you, it lets you apply the right amount of pressure and you can sort of push it out instead of it just coming bcoz then even though it would be loud it sounds like crap! and if you have a really rotten reed, that can be pretty bad too!!! ok i just realise that i said quite a lot, and i doubt if it made any sense at all! but yeah. thats my humble opinion. think happy thoughts, the metal mouth. Reply To Post by cammes (16 posts) 19 years ago Re: Bigger Jazz Sound I use a Selmer C* for classical with 3.5 reeds. And a Meyer 5 with 3 for Jazz and other stuff. Reply To Post by golferguy675 (600 posts) 19 years ago Re: Bigger Jazz Sound Your classical setup sounds pretty solid for highschool, but I would really advise buyin a 6 or 7M or a 6* Otto Link hard rubber if you have the extra cash. That should really help getting that bigger sound you're talking about. Hell, if you've got tons of extra cash, try a handcraft mouthpiece, like a Phil Baron or Ralph Morgan. Just a thought. Reply To Post by Lotus54 (32 posts) 19 years ago Re: Bigger Jazz Sound Breathe from your diapham. Keep a good, solid support of air at all times. This will possibly make the biggest single difference in your sound. At least it is a hugely important factor. And it doesn't matter what sort of music you play, you need this. If you don't know how, push all of your air out, and then some. Next take a big breath. Most likely you have just taken one using your diaphram. Your gut should move, not your chest. After you can take big breaths, then learn to keep a steady pressure up, not matter how loud you play. This will take some work. After you can get those, then you can learn to open your jaw a bit more, open your throat a LOT and take more MP into your mouth. You should be louder then, even with no equipment change. Of course, a larger opening on your MP and a harder reed will allow you to move more air. But I think that the support needs to be built first. Mark Reply To Post by wilson (9 posts) 19 years ago Re: Bigger Jazz Sound I would advise you just to quit band all together, but I'm surprised your director would want you to play louder. Mine always told me to shut the hell up. Also, screw classical; there's no future in it for a sax player. Be all about the jazz. Reply To Post AIM by barimachine (323 posts) 19 years ago Re: Bigger Jazz Sound actually there is a future in classical saxophone now that there are so many pieces out there so it is good to be trained in both Reply To Post by golferguy675 (600 posts) 19 years ago Re: Bigger Jazz Sound Wow. What rude and ignorant advice. The biggest thing that got me about what you said wilson, was no future in classical. I dare anyone to go find a job at a University in saxophone studies with no classical background. If it was down to you and another guy for head of jazz studies, and your qualifications were all pretty well the same, except for the first guy also had a good classical background, he's got it hands down. Studying classical and jazz improve eachother. I find that jazz players that practice classical are better jazz players, and that classical players that play jazz are much better classical players. If you're "all about the jazz", you're not going to get anymore than weekend gigs in bars. Unless you're Von Freeman, and you're God's gift to jazz and blues. Even big bands like the Village Vanguard will audition you on classical as well as jazz. I admire you for wanting to make your director happy, and seeking adivice to help you do so. It's that attitude that will get you places in music. Reply To Post by connsaxman_jim (2336 posts) 19 years ago Re: Bigger Jazz Sound Amen golferguy. Wilson, I did exactly that! I quit band. I got bored with it. I got tired of my band director telling me what horn to play, what mouthpiece to use, etc., so I quit! I started playing with a couple bands; playing jazz, blues, oldies, funk, and pretty much whatever I had the opportunity to play. I got quite an education working with some of the musicians I played with, but by leaving band, I basically forfeited any chance I had towards a music scholarship, or any future in music education. As for a bigger sound, I agree that an Otto Link Tone Edge with a fairly open tip, like a 7* facing, and a 3 1/2 reed should make a difference. You may even consider a metal piece, like an Otto Link New York. They sound pretty good on alto. Normally though I prefer hard rubber for alto. Reply To Post Yahoo! by connsaxman_jim (2336 posts) 19 years ago Re: Bigger Jazz Sound sorry, I said 3 1/2 reed. That's a little stiff for a 7* facing. I would start out with a # 2 1/2 reed. Reply To Post Yahoo! by wilson (9 posts) 19 years ago Re: Bigger Jazz Sound Well in my humble opinion, that attitude is just due to our overtly white-bred culture. Jazz is really the only authentically American music because it was about innovation and averting from all the rules of music by which tradition had bound. It was first frowned upon as a bastardization of music because it was so unprecedented until it was finally accepted and integrated into our white (lack there-of) culture. Call me closed-minded, but those "weekend gigs in bars" are what jazz was originally all about; just getting together and having a good time. What you're advocating, sir, is petty materialism and status. Reply To Post AIM by Firk (31 posts) 19 years ago Re: Bigger Jazz Sound i understand what your saying wilson, but you have to realize as do the rest of us that playing gigs in a bar is the passion you are talking about, however one must make a living to function in society and so if you wish to do so playing saxophone, you must have a broadened spectrum of music diversity.(wow, total run-on sentence) on a side note(or on topic i suppose): i am currently trying out 3 rubber alto links. a 5, 5, and a 7. i love them all for different reasons and am having a hard time choosing just one! ~Firk Reply To Post by wilson (9 posts) 19 years ago Re: Bigger Jazz Sound Okay, I'll concede that there is something of a future out of years of hacking away at etudes from that damned Ferling book, but come on. I mean, honestly, is that the reason any of us picked up a saxophone to begin with? And I'm sure the recording industry couldn't really care less that I nailed Bozza's "Improvisation et Caprice". Reply To Post AIM by knorter (205 posts) 19 years ago Re: Bigger Jazz Sound Wilson--I understand your frustration, classical saxophone does sometimes feel like a self perpetuating art but it does have a place in our studies. In order to play jazz at our fullest potential we ALL must master our instruments. Those classical etudes and pieces are extremely challenging to play correctly and take many years in order to do so. Each etude is designed to challenge one or two aspects of the instrument. Unfortunately many jazz students neglect the study of their instrument and try to rely on expensive mouthpieces, horns, and magic reeds to make them sound good. In actuality equipment only amplifies what we do it can't solve our problems. While the recording industry may not care if you nail "Improvisation et Caprice" the listeners and your colleagues will know if you have bad sound and/or technique. Good luck. Reply To Post Yahoo! AIM ICQ by phathorn (165 posts) 19 years ago Re: Bigger Jazz Sound The obvious reasons for working the etudes notwithstanding, it should interest some of those students (to whom knorter was referring) that both Parker and Diz spent many an hour working Marcel Mule's studies...It's a tough job market even for the "weekend warriors". Working on the classical literature gives one more tool to improve your final product.... Reply To Post by connsaxman_jim (2336 posts) 19 years ago Re: Bigger Jazz Sound Boring as it is, there is definately a lot to be learned from studying classical music. Recently, I have been working with a player who studied with Sinta at Interlochen. She is an amazing saxophonist who wanted to learn to play better improv, jazz and blues. I am absolutely amazed by how quickly she learns, and she has an amazing sound. She has great embouchure control, and even her altissimo is perfect! In actuality, I think she should be teaching me rather than me teaching her! The horn and set up do have a lot to do with your sound, but like Kristy said, it's the player who really makes it all come together. Reply To Post Yahoo! by phathorn (165 posts) 19 years ago Re: Bigger Jazz Sound I really wish I could go back to interlochen for a few more summers...oh well, life happens... Reply To Post by jamterry (573 posts) 19 years ago Re: Bigger Jazz Sound Listen to whay Kristy says!!!! All this stuff with horns, mouthpieces, ligatures, and reeds needs to be de-emphasized. I set up my three horns on the stands and look at them. They just sit there!!!! Someone has to make that sound come out of them. Reply To Post Yahoo! AIM ICQ by jamterry (573 posts) 19 years ago Re: Bigger Jazz Sound I like to play into a corner in a dead room to hear how i sound. What ever I say is just a suggestion that comes from many years experience. One more thought. I see so many posts about being the first, best, and nailing. I would suggest that everyone should try to jam with people who can blow you away. That will bring your playing up. Reply To Post Yahoo! AIM ICQ by jamterry (573 posts) 19 years ago Re: Bigger Jazz Sound As Kristy has said already. good sound comes from the mastery of the horn. I never played in any school bands, but I did go to summer institute at northwestern university. There i met Fred Hemke. That guy has the best alto technique and sound that I have ever seen. You take that pure sound and you have a foundation for any type of music. I practice my Marcel Mule books to this day. We can learn something every day if we push ourselves a little. Practice On!!!! :) Reply To Post Yahoo! AIM ICQ by saxophonik (73 posts) 19 years ago Re: Bigger Jazz Sound Terry, that's great advice aboutjamming with people who can "blow you away". I spent my years in middle school and high school in school bands, but also played in a local R&B band. Three of the members were my music teachers! Talk about a humbling experience! But, I think back to those days and realize that most of my education at that time came from that R&B band. BTW: I went to college as a saxophone major with the dream of becoming a jazz major... I spent most of my time there playing Bach and Haydn... and I don't regret a second of it. Reply To Post by jamterry (573 posts) 19 years ago Re: Bigger Jazz Sound That was priceless experience!!!! Saxophonik :) Reply To Post Yahoo! AIM ICQ by chiamac (586 posts) 19 years ago Re: Bigger Jazz Sound I don't know if this is kosher or not (or even spelled right) but this is what I used to do... and not that I'm an expert or anything, but back in high school A LOT of people liked my tone and style. I wish I would have been better at math and memorzing back then, and found a good college with a good band... but anyway, (and don't knock me too much for saying this) but I got a big sound by dropping my lip just enough to fatten it out, but not enough to lose control. I think back on it now, but my metal link is less than forgiving if you don't have a set emobuture (haha sp)... and to get control you do have to play long tones and pratice vibrato! BUT, my setup didn't want to play loud rock!=( oh well, I can live with silky loud and round! Reply To Post Yahoo! AIM by chiamac (586 posts) 19 years ago Re: Bigger Jazz Sound oh yeah, and this was 6-8 years ago... so I could be blowing smoke by now. =) and wilson... you're only 17, honestly you don't have any clue to how things work yet. Sure it's fine to have opions like that, but that's when you're 40something with a music degree and making money doing it. then you can say whatever you want. Right now you need to sit back, listen, and learn everything you can from these people around you! There is a lot of experence that can be gained from this and other places. besides, it really isn't cool (in the long term) to have a attidude like that. not to mention it's just as easy to be open, nice, and friendly! Reply To Post Yahoo! AIM by chiamac (586 posts) 19 years ago Re: Bigger Jazz Sound oh and my website is better... www.andrewthomasdesigns.com =) ok sorry guys, I'm bored, time to bike to the bar for some d&b music! Reply To Post Yahoo! AIM by Datsaxguy (4 posts) 18 years ago Re: Bigger Jazz Sound Maximize your sound: here are 2 good resources. David Liebman - Sax sound production - DVD Art of Playing Saxophone - Book Here are two different approaches to maximize your tone. Enjoy Reply To Post by Datsaxguy (4 posts) 18 years ago Re: Bigger Jazz Sound Maximize your sound: here are 2 good resources. David Liebman - Sax sound production - DVD Larry Teal - Art of Playing Saxophone - Book Here are two different approaches to maximize your tone. Enjoy Reply To Post by Datsaxguy (4 posts) 18 years ago Re: Bigger Jazz Sound Maximize your sound: here are 2 good resources. David Liebman - Sax sound production - DVD Larry Teal - Art of Playing Saxophone - Book Here are two different approaches to maximize your tone. Enjoy Reply To Post by CountSpatula (602 posts) 18 years ago Re: Bigger Jazz Sound One of the loudest and brightest jazz mouthpiece that can like cut through anyone which is similar to the Selmer mouthpiece looks, is the Jumbo Java Vandoren mouthpiece. You need thin reeds for it, but its veryy loud and verryyy bright inphasis*. I've heard Meyers are good, I also think otto links are good too. But if you're playing on a jazz mpc and your teacher is telling you to play louder? Dont know why that'd happen unless its you vr. 15 trumpets. Just know=Higher baffle=Brighter=Cut through easier Bigger bore=loude My teachers never taught me this so I had to figure that out on my own. Reply To Post AIM by martin_alto (9 posts) 18 years ago Re: Bigger Jazz Sound ditto count spatula but also know bigger chambers and tip opennings will slow down articulation. I can only recommend moderate reed size 2 1/2 to 3, medium size chamber and tip openings. Big baffles will give you bright and little else. You have to do the work. The setup can fatten your sound and give you good (or bad) brightness which will increase volume but extreme specs will limit you. Good diaphram support, an open throat and prehearing every note beats all. Reply To Post by diminishedpower (25 posts) 18 years ago Re: Bigger Jazz Sound First as of equepment if u go to the extreme either way for baffes and such just remember your limiting yourself to that sound. were ass when u get medium you can minipulate the sound to the way u want more with your ombachoure than letting the mouthpiece do the work. second i have a meyer 5 for an alto and i can out blow the whole section. Its not the equipment thats holding the kid back. For were to put your mouth look at the mouthpiece and at the fulcrum where the reed meets the mouthpiece is were you should have your lip, thats were you'l get the best tone and control, for now. later u can modify it once uve set your ombachoure for altissimo and subtoning and such, sorry if this made no sense Reply To Post