Saxophone Forum


by KingNecron
(76 posts)
18 years ago

Horn Recommendations

Hi everyone. I've been playing sax for about nine years, and it's high time I get a new horn. I figured I would consult the collective wisdom and see what y'all think. I'm posting this in the jazz section because jazz saxophone is my preference--sort of. Let me explain. I'm interested in developing this honky, deep, resonate 50s rhythm & blues sax sound, but I want to maintain a certain smoothness. I've been working a great deal toward developing this R&B sound with a lot funk and blues playing (and a little rock 'n' roll). But I don't want my sound to be totally "honkin'" all the time--I want some balance for when things get a little "jazzy." I realize this is terribly vague--none of these terms can really be clearly be defined. Imagine Sonny Rollins meets World Saxophone Quartet on _Breath of Life_ meets juke-joint sax player. I appreciate the feedback, and I'm hoping some of you will be able to get through my vague terms and make some helpful suggestions. (I am currently playing on a Ponzol Custom hard rubber jazz piece and a... sigh... Armstrong tenor sax. I also have what I think is an old Holton, but I don't really play her too much.)

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  1. by blackfrancis
    (396 posts)

    18 years ago

    Re: Horn Recommendations

    I think that just about any horn would get you there. You've already doped out the sound you want and that's the hard part. That sound will come from YOU, probably regardless of the brand of honker you stow in your case. That being said, consider an old Super 20 or 10M with a good Link or Berg with a fairly open tip.

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    1. by KingNecron
      (76 posts)

      18 years ago

      Re: Horn Recommendations

      Thanks for the feedback, and I think you're right--it's going to be more of the player than the horn. I guess I'm looking to "maximize" this kind of sound, and your suggestions help (I knew I'd get "King Super 20" a lot).

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      1. by golferguy675
        (600 posts)

        18 years ago

        Re: Horn Recommendations

        I agree a lot with what Francis said about it being more the player. The Super 20 is a really big sounding horn, that would've been my first thought. Also, a horn that you don't see too often that has a big sound is the Buescher Top Hat & Cane 400. The great thing about vintage horns is if you can find someone who doesn't know much and just sees an old looking horn, you can come by them quite cheaply. I.e. garage sales, auctions, or pawn shops. One I hear a lot is an old man dies and his wife doesn't want the horn around. Just keep your ears open. As for the Ponzol, that's a pretty contemporary mouthpiece for the sound you're describing, but if you like how it plays, then keep it. Personally, I would go with a rubber link for that type of sound.

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        1. by KingNecron
          (76 posts)

          18 years ago

          Re: Horn Recommendations

          Yeah, I'd be interested in knowing more about the Buescher Top Hat & Cane 400, and really just Bueschers in general. I've noticed that a lot of the old Bueschers are more in my price range, although I would love to get my hands on a Super 20. I love my Ponzol, but for a long time I played on a metal Otto Link (6 Star facing, I believe), and I liked what I got with it. I decided to get the Ponzol so I could have a hard rubber piece and play around with both metal and hard rubber, but I've found that I enjoy the Ponzol much more and that's pretty much all I play on now. I've gotten to where I get a good, rich sound out of it, especially when the reed gets to that "sweet spot" that just lets the whole horn speak. Thanks, Francis and GolferGuy. Let me know if there's anything else I should consider.

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        2. by Seano
          (132 posts)

          18 years ago

          Re: Horn Recommendations

          I wouldn't really know what horn to get, but a metal Guardala mouthpiece would be really good in getting the sound you want, capable of honking well but jazz-sounding at the same time. The only trouble with these is that they are expensive due to the company ceasing production. Sean

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        3. by KingNecron
          (76 posts)

          18 years ago

          Re: Horn Recommendations

          I'm not familiar with the Guardala. Could you give me more information, or perhaps the link to a website? Thanks, Sean!

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        4. by kelsey
          (930 posts)

          18 years ago

          Re: Horn Recommendations

          I play a Guardala and like it for rock and blues. It has some edge and is very loud. A vintage Conn or the Super 20 would both be great horns for what you want in a saxophone. I have a Mark Vl tenor as my main instrument but play an old Yamaha 62 for rock or outdoors gigs. For Jazz I use the Mark Vl and a dukoff 8 mouthpiece. Check out the Yamaha 61 or 62 before you buy. You might like it.......Kelsey
          Barry Kelsey

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        5. by connsaxman_jim
          (2336 posts)

          18 years ago

          Re: Horn Recommendations

          Guardala's are great horns. They were made by B&S in Germany. Unfortunately, Guardala doesn't make them anymore, but the same horn is available from B&S. Incidently, B&S also makes some of the professional model LA Sax horns, which are also great horns. They have a nice sound, similar to the vintage Conn and Buescher saxophones. They are usually very reasonably priced also. The Yamaha 62's are fantastic pro model horns for nearly student model prices. It's pretty hard to beat Yamaha for value, and with the right set-up, they sound great! Even the Yamaha Custom 82Z sells for a very modest price. Jim

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        6. by KingNecron
          (76 posts)

          18 years ago

          Re: Horn Recommendations

          This is all great information, and it gives me a lot to consider. I'm especially interested to hear about the Yamahas. I've heard that they make great horns, and I think they tend to get overlooked because everyone's so crazy about Selmers. I'll be doing more research. Anything else that anyone has to suggest would be appreciated.

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        7. by connsaxman_jim
          (2336 posts)

          18 years ago

          Re: Horn Recommendations

          Everyone's so crazy about Selmers....yeah, I've noticed! And, the greedy bastards at Conn/Selmer continue their efforts to TAKE OVER THE WORLD!!!

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        8. by Seano
          (132 posts)

          18 years ago

          Re: Horn Recommendations

          While production has ceased, you can still find some Guardala horns and mthpces at www.sax.co.uk. I must warn you, the prices have risen dramatically since production has ceased. Before production had ceased, my black nickel tenor cost about $7000 Australian dollars and i think it is much more than that now. While Guardalas are awesome, they are too expensive. My other favorite horn is my Conn 6m Alto, gives such a phat and warm sound, I don't know if it's the horn you're looking for but you should definitely check them out. They are cheaper than most modern saxes and sound better than most modern saxes. But keep in mind, no matter what setup you have, it is up to you what you sound like. Keep practising!!! Sean

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        9. by Seano
          (132 posts)

          18 years ago

          Re: Horn Recommendations

          Sorry to double post (again) but also check out Yamaha's new Custom Series Z or EX, they are great horns, and the unlacquered one looks pretty cool :-)

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        10. by MarkLavelle
          (300 posts)

          18 years ago

          Re: Horn Recommendations

          I strongly recommend a trip to a store that has at least half a dozen non-student models on hand to try out. That's what I did when I was ready to upgrade from my Yamaha 23. It was well worth spending most of a day on, in my opinion (I posted a pretty detailed report on that trip back in Nov. '05, I think in the 'general' area). If there isn't a store that big in/near Columbia, consider a road trip to Atlanta or ?. Bring your favorite mouthpiece and a tuner (gotta check that intonation)! And don't feel like you have to buy one that day - anything worth over $2000 is worth another road trip... For me, a Yamaha 82Z was the clear winner in terms of bang per buck, and from the way you describe what you're looking for I susupect we have very similar tastes. FYI, my favorite mouthpiece on the 82Z is a Vandoren Java T45 (but I'm seriously thinking about trying a metal Vandoren).

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        11. by KingNecron
          (76 posts)

          18 years ago

          Re: Horn Recommendations

          Thanks, Mark. I've been wanting to take a trip to Atlanta or Charlotte for a while, just spending a day or two messing around with horns and seeing what I like. One reason I'm reticent to buy off of the Internet is because I don't want to buy a horn sight unseen (and tone unheard). I'll be moving to Knoxville in a few months to start graduate school. If anyone knows of any horn places there (or elsewhere in East Tennessee) I'd appreciate the info. I'm definitely going to try the Yamaha 82Z. This was a model I was totally unfamiliar with, so thanks for the heads-up.

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