Saxophone Forum


by oracjazz
(1 post)
18 years ago

Practicing Tips, anyone?

Hello everybody! I am currently enrolled in a Doctoral program in a subject unrelated to jazz, so it's like a full-time job. I'm finding it difficult to 1.find time to practice and 2.practice efficiently. The other issue is that I'm playing a lot with people, but I get frustrated with my lack of advancement. I feel pretty overwhelmed with the wealth of information I have at my fingertips, so I'm also having a tough time focusing on *one* thing for a long time. Here are my questions: 1. What are your suggestions for practicing with more focus and efficiency? and 2. How many hours of practice does it usually take for a concept (i.e. triad pairs over dominant chords) to "get into" your playing? (irregardless of the fact that it depends on the person). Thanks for your help!

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  1. by The Insomniac Saxman
    (141 posts)

    18 years ago

    Re: Practicing Tips, anyone?

    To practice efficiently, work on your ear and technique simultaneously. For example (you mentioned triad pairs, which means you are familiar with Walt Weiskopf's intervalic concept). If you are using the triad pair F-G, for example, this typically appears in the key of C (although can be used in other contexts). In your head while you are working with the pair, sing solfege syllables relative to the key of C (if you arpeggiate C-F-A-D-G-B, etc, then think DO-FA-LA-RE-SO-TI, etc.). If you can develop a sense of function simultaneously with technique, you will be working more efficiently. With scales, sing the solfege in your head while you play. If you can relate the patterns to solfege rather than actual notes on a page, you will be able to play in any key. Again, function is important. Try intervals expanding from m2 to P8 by half step (C-C#-C-D-C-D#-C-E . . . C-C2) and think in solfege (DO-DI-DO-RE-DO-RI-DO-MI . . . DO-DO2). Then do the same thing descending (DO-TI-DO-TE-DO-LA-DO-LE etc.). Is this easy? NO. But if you develop your ear simultaneously, you will be far ahead of the competition. Weiskopf also has a book out called "Around the Horn" which "arpeggiates" a set of four notes to outline a certain modal function (he gave me the exercise in a lesson a few years before he wrote the book, so I had to go it on my own). I took it a step further and applied solfege to it. Granted it took me a year to get through all 12 keys competently, but you know what, my ear is MUCH better for it. The saxophone is an extension of your mind, heart, and soul. This will help you to get off the page and express yourself easier. Best of luck. Paul

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    1. by The Insomniac Saxman
      (141 posts)

      18 years ago

      Re: Practicing Tips, anyone?

      Forgot to mention, make sure you are using Moveable 'Do' (where the tonic of the key you are in is Do) with a La-based minor, as opposed to fixed 'Do' (where C is always Do). You will be able to hear key centers this way. Dr. Thom Mason wrote a text on using solfege for jazz improvisation entitled--if memory serves--"The Art of Hearing." Check it out.

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  2. by straightj23
    (103 posts)

    18 years ago

    Re: Practicing Tips, anyone?

    There are people that could practice for hours on end, but if you want to be a good player, at least practice an hour each day or up to two hours. Allow a break every now and then to rest your chops. Find something to sight-read EVERY DAY! Work on scales and chords and stuff like that almost more than anything else. Getting the scales faster and faster will help your technique. And play the full register when you do the scales. Go ALL THE WAY UP (to High F or F# if you have it) and ALL THE WAY DOWN (to low Bb or low A on baritone if you have it.) And, most importantly, LONG TONES. Doing long tones (holding a note out for an extended period of time) can build your embrochure and help in tuning. Work on vibrato when doing long tones too. This is the way I was taught to practice when I went to saxophone camp at Bowling Green State University. When learning new material, learn it ALL at a slow tempo until you've almost memorized it. THEN you can start speeding it up. You can take my comments if you want to, but I'm still in high school and you're in a doctoral program in college. I'm somewhat surprised you're asking this question!

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  3. by swingstreet
    (315 posts)

    18 years ago

    Re: Practicing Tips, anyone?

    I'm one of those who believes that 15 minutes of concentrated practice is way better than hours of scattered, unfocused practice. However, if you can keep your concentration and focus for longer periods, then so much the better, as it means you will improve much faster. I always start out with about 5 minutes of long tones, to build tonal strength, and to strengthen the lip. Then I do at least 20 minutes of scales and chords in all keys every day. Then I'll spend a little extra time on scales in keys that gave me the most trouble. We all have a certain key we like better than others, but it's important to be able to play them all equally well, and allow the fingers to move freely and without prejudice. Then I never forget to play tunes. So many sax players seem to spend an inordiante amount of time on the scales, so that when they improvise, all they"re doing is playing just chords and scales. It is important, as far as I'm concerned, to be able to play melodically. The saxophone is first and foremost a melodic instrument. Learn as many tunes as you can. Once you know a song, then you can improvise and create a new melody around the old one. I will also tell you what my teacher, Lee Konitz told me on my first lesson "Always play over your head".

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  4. by jamterry
    (573 posts)

    18 years ago

    Re: Practicing Tips, anyone?

    School was interfering with my practice and sleep, so I quit going. There are some days that you just get into playing, no matter what, and some that you don't. Practice in any way that works for you. There is no set formula for practice or improvisation either. Those concepts, you have to make your own. How can a triad be a pair? You got me on that one. If you're messin' with all that doctoral stuff, you don't really need to perform. It's a tough choice between sensiblity and artistry. Hope it works out for you :) Terry

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    1. by jamterry
      (573 posts)

      18 years ago

      Re: Practicing Tips, anyone?

      sensibility*

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      1. by knorter
        (205 posts)

        18 years ago

        Re: Practicing Tips, anyone?

        Terry you know I love and respect you but I strongly disagree with you everytime you say there is no way to teach or study jazz besides figuring it out on your own. Some people can do it by themselves and are great players--this is not a slam on self taught people. To study jazz at a beginning level players should be working on 4 things: Chords: learn to arpeggiate Major seventh, dominant seventh, minor seventh, half-diminished, and fully diminished. As a player gets better then worry about the upper extensions of all of these chords but learn to crawl before running:) scales: there are many scales to learn but a beginner should start with the scales that match the chords you're working on: Major scale, lydian, mixolydian, dorian, locrian or locrian #2, diminished scales--half step first and whole step first. tunes: players of all levels should be learning tunes. Memorize the melody--if possible in several keys. Then learn to arpeggiate the chord progression. I use a metronome or play-along or band-in-a-box and from memory play a chorus of all the roots, then 1-3, then 3-1, 135, 531, 1357, 7531 maybe up to the ninths too. Then I play several choruses of soloing just using the chord tones nothing else. If I can accomplish this from memory then I feel I know the chord progression fairly well. From here it's all about learning vocabulary. Vocab/patterns/licks/transcriptions: The last category to practice is the vocabulary section. We have to learn this language from others and analyze what works and why. Then we learn each new idea in 12 keys and use it when presented with a similar situation harmonically. For example transcribing a chorus of Dexter Gordon playing the blues we might find 3 or 4 melodic passages or ii V ideas that we can translate to our horn. Once we learn that pattern or lick we can learn it in 12 keys and use it every time we see a ii V until that becomes part of our natural language. All the greats repeated themselves--same licks different key or application of an idea. You could just play these ideas by ear but I feel working on them in 12 keys free up our brain to use them in any situation not just the original key we heard it in. I then go back to the tunes I'm working on and use them like etudes-plotting where to plug in the lick and using it every time until it becomes effortless. Lastly--Terry triad pairs are another harmonic approach to improvising. Walt Weiskopf wrote a book on this method. Basically you pair 2 triads for every chord. On dominants you could choose the triads based off the root and flat 7: D7 would be D triad and C triad and play alternating triad ideas or you could choose D and E to give it a lydian sound. You might play DF#AEG#BF#ADG#BEADF#BEG# or other inversions of those triads-a more angular approach rather than scales. Good luck, Kristy

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        1. by golferguy675
          (600 posts)

          18 years ago

          Re: Practicing Tips, anyone?

          Haha isn't the cingular ringtone triad pairs? I like the idea with using the E triad to incorporate the #4 for a lydian sound . I do that in the #11 chords when I play 'What Is This Thing Called Love?'. Also, triad pairs seem to be a pretty narrowly focused concept. Maybe if you've gotten past all of the basics and everything that's a good thing to really work on, but if you're having trouble advancing maybe try working on broader aspects of your improv., such as the ones listed in Kristy's post.

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        2. by jamterry
          (573 posts)

          18 years ago

          Re: Practicing Tips, anyone?

          Kristy I love you too :) I don't know the names of that stuff. I do that a lot (rock on the two chords but not necessarily triads)when I play rock. I got in a jam with Rory Gallagherand he was riffing like that. He palm muted arpeggios like the major with the octave and then roll back to dominant 7, He was doing like tick ticka tick tick tick tick tick tick going back and forth. He was palm muting and it was real percussive. I was playing in unison with him on tenor. I was ready to leave the grouind. I think that he's dead now. Some of you people might like to try some gypsy and flamenco arpeggios. My opinion is that the best jazz is usually experimental. Classical structure is a really cool thing mixed with jazz idioms. Whatever Kristy says I back up all the way, Kristy I heard from Fred Hemke today. I have a classical influence too. For some of you people who want to learn apreggios, try the guitar book Flying Fingers. I lost mine , but I will find out if it still available. Practice On!!!!!!! Terry

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        3. by jamterry
          (573 posts)

          18 years ago

          Re: Practicing Tips, anyone?

          To all players. I'm not very educated and cannot explain stuff well. Sorry if I said stuff that doesn't make sense!!!! All the best :) Terry

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