Saxophone Forum


by WishIWereHere
(8 posts)
19 years ago

Ref 54 vs. Keilwerth Shadow

Hey, In a few months i going to have the oppertunity to buy a new sax through my private instructor, who coincidentally owns his own music store :) , and im gonna be faced with the chioce between a Keilwerth Shadow and a Ref 54, both new. He already has the Shadow in stock and was wndering if i should ask him to order the ref or just not bother. Thanks...sorry so long

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  1. by Spike
    (248 posts)

    19 years ago

    Look at me reply... Wee!

    Get the Keilwerth. The reference 54 is... a cheap Mark Vi wannabe. It fails in every respect. If you don't dig keilwerths(not everyone does, but I love them^_^,) try the 36. It's pretty nice. Otherwise, Keilwerth all the way!

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  2. by mountainman
    (1 post)

    19 years ago

    Re: Ref 54 vs. Keilwerth Shadow

    I was exactly where you are 2 months ago. I was able to try the 54,but the only Keilwerth I could try was a black nickel Sx90 which lost out 4 years ago to the B&S 2001 I have been playing. I have tried many Mk VI's over the years and they're just not my horn. I have been playing my Shadow for a week and can truthfully say it the most beautiful, best mechanically, and greatest sounding horn I have ever had in my hands in 52 years of playing sax!! That said he should get the 54 so you can try both. Someone will buy it.

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  3. by Jazzpath
    (19 posts)

    19 years ago

    Re: Ref 54 vs. Keilwerth Shadow

    I would highly recommend trying out a reference 54. I've played Keilwerths (though not the "shadow" model) and personally prefer other horns. The more instruments you try, the better your decision will be. Take the time to try out many saxes, including other models from selmer and yamaha. For the money that you'll end up spending, it's worth taking the time play at least 5-8 different horns before you purchase. Good luck..

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    1. by someguy
      (80 posts)

      19 years ago

      Re: Ref 54 vs. Keilwerth Shadow

      Never played a Ref 54, although I own a Keilwerth Alto sx90r Black nickle and love it. I have a tenor sx90 Black nickle coming tomorrow and cant wait. I dont know why the JK's dont seem to be that popular? They really are a great horn IMOP. But Deffinately try afew different horns. Plus that Shadow is HOT lookin, If you like that and all:)

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      1. by mosplace
        (26 posts)

        19 years ago

        Re: Ref 54 vs. Keilwerth Shadow

        Well, I have the Anniversary model as an Alto and the Shadow as tenor. I didn´t like the Ref.54. My personal feeling was, that it soundes kind of stuffy compared to the Shadow. I like the Keilwerth sound much more. The quality of Selmer saxophones has been not so good in the past. They have a lot of problems, with finish, intonation and quality. I think they realy need to work on their image. The customer service from Keilwerth is outstanding. Fast, nice and competent. Selmer needs from time to time days or weeks to answer or to fix problems, which cannot been fixed at your local dealer. I live in Germany. If I have a problem, I send the sax to Keilwerth and within a few days I have it back. They have even time for special orders. I had a sterling silver neck, custom engraved in the Shadow look and black nickel plated. I don´t thing Selmer would do such a small special wish. I love my Keilwerths. They are outstanding horn, with their own powerfull sound. The quality is top.

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        1. by connsaxman_jim
          (2336 posts)

          19 years ago

          Re: Ref 54 vs. Keilwerth Shadow

          You might want to try the Ref., but the Keilwerth is the nicer of the 2 in my opinion.

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        2. by jazaddict
          (41 posts)

          19 years ago

          Re: Ref 54 vs. Keilwerth Shadow

          Never played a Keilworth, love my Ref 54 tenor.

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        3. by johnsonfromwisconsin
          (767 posts)

          19 years ago

          Re: Ref 54 vs. Keilwerth Shadow

          if it were alto, I'd take the 54 in a heartbeat as Keilwerths just don't do it for me. If it's tenors we're talking about, I'd personally buy niether and look for a Ref 36, Series II or III, Yamaha, or vintage SDA. that's just me.

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        4. by connsaxman_jim
          (2336 posts)

          19 years ago

          Re: Ref 54 vs. Keilwerth Shadow

          I'd take a Keilwerth over a Selmer any day! Much better tone, better quality all the way around. I can tell you from personal experience that Selmer has really turned to shit the past few years. I have a Series III Soprano that I have not been very happy with at all. I purchased an SX-90 Soprano and I LOVE it! It's twice the horn the Series III is. I've played every SX-90 they make except the bass, and Keilwerth is quality all the way.

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        5. by karebear1012
          (395 posts)

          19 years ago

          Re: Ref 54 vs. Keilwerth Shadow

          hey Jim, I sent you pix of the alto sax I bought (royal artist of bruno). Just wanted to know you opinion on it...if it has any hope.. Thanks! Kara

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        6. by connsaxman_jim
          (2336 posts)

          19 years ago

          Re: Ref 54 vs. Keilwerth Shadow

          Hi Kara, I got your email late last night and I did take a look. It does look like it needs a lot of attention. Are all the keys free? It really needs to be disassembled and chemically cleaned, and I think that most of those spots and the tarnish would come off. The first thing you would want to do would be to put it in a tub with some keroscene and let it soak for a while to loosen up the screws and free up the action. I do think it's salvageable. It's definately an oldie! It's probably one of the first True Tone stencils.

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        7. by karebear1012
          (395 posts)

          19 years ago

          Re: Ref 54 vs. Keilwerth Shadow

          do you think it's worth the money to fix up?? we arent sure what to do.... free keys?? huhh...? I'll soak it and see wht happens thanks! Kara

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        8. by connsaxman_jim
          (2336 posts)

          19 years ago

          Re: Ref 54 vs. Keilwerth Shadow

          Kara, To have the horn chemically cleaned and the keys all buffed will run about $200. Maybe $350 for a repad, and add another $50-$100 for other misc. work, so you're looking at $600-$650 in repairs. If you were to have the sax repaired, it would be worth $800-$900 at least. None of the keys are broken right? Do they all move free? That is the big clincher right there, because if the screws are all corroded and the tech has to unsolder and resolder posts to get the screws out, then Houston, we have a problem! I would definately let it soak for a couple weeks before doing anything. That'll help clean it too.

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        9. by karebear1012
          (395 posts)

          19 years ago

          Re: Ref 54 vs. Keilwerth Shadow

          well all the keys are there and everything...some of them are real hard to push down, some stay down once pushed, but theyre all there. so in your opinion.... would u do it?

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        10. by someguy
          (80 posts)

          19 years ago

          Re: Keilwerth Shadow vs. Ref. who

          Keilwerth Shadow. Thats my final answer. Just got to play my SX90 tenor and it blows so freely. I LOVE IT! I have an Otto STM 7 w/ 2.5 zz reed. I really like it. Good purchase :)

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        11. by bmcguire
          (45 posts)

          19 years ago

          Re: Keilwerth Shadow vs. Ref. who

          I'm glad you finally mentioned Alto or Tenor. I prefer the Selmer Alto's to the Keilwerth but you just can't beat a SX90R Tenor. I love mine!

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