Saxophone Forum


by kevdon
(4 posts)
19 years ago

Gurgle in new Yamaha yas23 Sax

I purchased a new Yamaha 23 Alto two days ago and it seems to have a gurgle in the notes below the low D flat. I played a tenor sax a lot, 30 years ago and am still restoring my skills. The store that sold it said it would "break" in. I admit it seems to be getting better but wonder if it will go away. My skills on the very low notes are surely not what they used to be. The horn plays perfectly on all the other notes and has a nice sound. I was playing a loaner Bundy II before and did not have the gurgle in the low notes but on the other hand it was extra work to play those low notes with a horn that needed some re conditioning. I am currently using a Yamaha 4C mouthpiece with 2& 2-1/2 reeds. I'm not ready to move up to a harder read. Any suggestions appreciated. Kevdon

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  1. by sax_maniac
    (984 posts)

    19 years ago

    Re: Gurgle in new Yamaha yas23 Sax

    You've got a pad leak or an adjustment issue which is common for the bell keys on all horns - no matter their make. Either of these problems should be easily resolvable by the shop if they are worth their weight in salt. A breaking in period is expected, but the shop should (at no charge) fix this little problem as the bell keys don't break in as much as your upper and lower stack as they are not as frequently used and don't normally see a lot of pressure which would "break them in" unless key clamps are used (for which adjustments are eventually required anyhow). If you bought the horn two days ago, they should take care of this no questions asked. If they won't take care of this now, I imagine they won't be that great to work with down the road when "real" issues pop up. Where do you live? If you are around Detroit, I'd fix it for you for nothing.

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    1. by sax_maniac
      (984 posts)

      19 years ago

      Re: Gurgle in new Yamaha yas23 Sax

      A solicitous afterthought - get your money back and buy my YAS 23 (which is already broken in) for half the price you paid. Looks like new, pretty much, and no warbling whatsoever!

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      1. by kevdon
        (4 posts)

        19 years ago

        Re: Gurgle in new Yamaha yas23 Sax

        Thanks for you comments and advice. I appreciate your offer to adjust but I live in NJ. I purchased the sax expecting that it would break in or require minor adjustments. The store gave me a 1 year warrenty. I appreciate your verification that this is not a fundamental problem that cannot be corrected. The store I bought it from is not a Yamaha dealer and he claimed that this was a demo used to sell saxes to schools. I did try new and used saxes at 3 stores and found similar problems. Some of the used saxes played horrible including a $4000 selmer. Of course the stores said they would fix it up but why offer a bad planying unit to a customer then say you will fix it up. Think about the parent buying a sax for their child and blaming the kid for all those squeeks. Thanks again for your comments BTW I paid $700 for the sax and found that stores wanted $400 to 500 for a badly playing sax. I suspect that you want more than $350 for yours and you should get it.

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        1. by sax_maniac
          (984 posts)

          19 years ago

          Re: Gurgle in new Yamaha yas23 Sax

          Some stores are better at setting up saxophones than others. Saxophones are quite fickle to begin with, and it can take considerable time to fix certain problems, so if saxophones weren't so popular (and expensive), I'm sure that most stores wouldn't bother with them at all. Another critical factor that can cause warbling is the fit of the mouthpiece to the neck. If the tip of the neck has any gap around it (inside the bore of the mouthpiece), this can cause warbling - particularly at the low end. For an experiment, you might wna to try wrapping some teflon tape around the very tip of your neck cork. This may reduce or eliminate any gaps and might solve the problem if it's not a pad leak. I brought my personal horn (a Selmer III) into a store once to play it along side a similar model (a Selmer Ref 54) and I got the warbling on the 54 until I put my III neck on the store horn. As my mouthpiece was fitted to my neck, the problem was solved. Sure you don't want to play the drums instead? I'm actually selling mine for $495. www.saxmaniax.com/sax/as07.htm

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        2. by selmer 4evr
          (309 posts)

          19 years ago

          Re: Gurgle in new Yamaha yas23 Sax

          You seem to have a rolling bottom issue ,not customary but quite common none the less,,, especially in Selmer MarkVI and those misguided companies that copied the design ,,this can actually happen on the high C as well it tends to roll when blown hard ,,,,,Try this to find out where the problem is : put the plastic end cap (the one used when you store the horn in its case ) into the bell ( drop it in ) play the horn ,,if the problem goes away it is not a leak but a flaw in the horn look for another sax

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        3. by sax_maniac
          (984 posts)

          19 years ago

          Re: Gurgle in new Yamaha yas23 Sax

          I've noticed the rolling bottom on vintage horns - particularly C-Melodies. I throw my mpc cap down in my C if I have to play it quietly - like in church. I've not noticed this on the YAS-23's, though. The bow design and construction on the YAS-23 is very similar (almost identical) to the Couf/Keilwerth bow design - the Yamaha being only a few mm shorter but the same bore, essentially. If only the YAS-23 had it's tone holes more inline, it would be more comfortable playing seated center. But I digress... I've found the YAS-23 design particularly stable, so I'm betting it's a pad leak or mouthpiece fit.

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        4. by kevdon
          (4 posts)

          19 years ago

          Re: Gurgle in new Yamaha yas23 Sax

          Thanks for your comments, I've been away for a few days so I'll try inserting the mouthpiece or end cap in the bell tonight.

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        5. by kevdon
          (4 posts)

          19 years ago

          Re: Gurgle in new Yamaha yas23 Sax

          FYI I inserted the end cap in the bell and played both with and without it in there. There was no difference re the gurgle. I'll wait a few weeks, and if it does not go away, I'll take it back to the shop for adjustments.

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        6. by sax_maniac
          (984 posts)

          19 years ago

          Re: Gurgle in new Yamaha yas23 Sax

          Have them put a new neck cork on in case yours is too compressed - causing a gap. Between that and having the lower keys adjusted to eliminate leaks, we'll have to talk about embouchre next...

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