Saxophone Forum


by gardenshed
(20 posts)
19 years ago

Reed Tips for Alto

Please. This is such a scret business, apparently. So what do we do to our reeds to make sure that Moses gets found?

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  1. by The_§ax
    (147 posts)

    19 years ago

    Re: Reed Tips for Alto

    Ummm... I didn't actually understand any of that

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    1. by eman19
      (131 posts)

      19 years ago

      Re: Reed Tips for Alto

      I think he wants to know of ways to maximize his reeds to get a sound that hits like stink on a monkey. The reference to Moses is that Moses needed a sound so he could find a way to climb down after going to the top of the mountain for the commandments. Or something like that.

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      1. by gardenshed
        (20 posts)

        19 years ago

        Re: Reed Tips for Alto

        the Moses was totally frivolous. (reeds - Moses - forget it) I'm just interested in people's secret reed techniques.

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    2. by Rben20
      (35 posts)

      19 years ago

      Re: Reed Tips for Alto

      Rub the vamp of the reed with your thumb up and down..your oils help protect the reed from getting too much saliva in...makes reed smoother so its easier on your lips and helps make the reed last longer by making it waterproof so to speak...hope i helped..

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    3. by peter090
      (155 posts)

      19 years ago

      Re: Reed Tips for Alto

      A few observations/opinions. Your mileage may vary... A reed has to be flat where it meets the table of the mouthpiece before you can even start to determine whether or not it is "good". Until a reed passes the suck test there is no point in even trying to play it. Put on the reed, hold the back of the mouthpiece against the palm of your hand and suck the air out of the mouthpiece. If you can't get the reed to seal for a second or two trash it or sand it flat with fine sandpaper on glass avoiding the tip of the reed. Next the reed should be balanced from left to right. Change the angle of the moutpiece in your mouth from left to right (or lightly put your tongue on the left then right edge of the reed) If it feels/sounds harder on one side than the other scrape the hard side to get it balanced. More often than not a reed that seems too hard is really just not balanced. Remember at this point you aren't adjusting the hardness just trying to get both halves to play the same. Next and this a tricky bit. The reed has to have the correct taper front to back. Generally speaking low notes are more effected by the back of the reed and high notes more to the tip. (keep this in mind as you are scraping a reed for balance) Also the tip is more sensitive to adjustment than the back. Stay away from the center of the reed and learn by doing. Adjust a little at a time and be prepared to sacrifice a few reeds to the learning process. Also once a reed is flat and balanced you are mostly there. Getting the taper "right" is an art. If you get the reed flat and balanced and it doesn't seem too hard or soft, you'll have a pretty good reed. When you get a GREAT reed you'll know that luck of the draw has it balanced front to back as well. I've had very poor success trimming reeds that are too soft so I tend to order them a bit on the hard side and adjust them down. Reeds that are too soft I just toss. I've known people who swear by reed trimmers and it makes sense that it would work perhaps I'm too impatient. The more I play the less reed problems I have. I suspect that ones ability to adjust to less than perfect reeds improves with practice.

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      1. by gardenshed
        (20 posts)

        19 years ago

        Re: Reed Tips for Alto

        Gold. Thanks. Nice to know someone else stoops to using sandpaper as opposed to Alexandrian Norh bank Nile Delta Exo-leaves.. Anyway. ONe more thing. I acquired a 'Bari' medium plastic reed. Be handy for practise. I thought (I know, I know). Very Strange. Plays beautifully for 32 bars, strong, flexible enounciation, nice hard tone, which I like, and loud. Then suddenly, just when you'd expect it to have warmed up properly, it... well, - 'seizes up'. Like a car with no oil. What IS that about?

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      2. by CarmenXV
        (1 post)

        19 years ago

        Re: Reed Tips for Alto

        ER thanks! This may help me in my band homework....I think.....

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        1. by gardenshed
          (20 posts)

          19 years ago

          Re: Reed Tips for Alto

          I don't know if this will help either, but knowing that 'Amazing Grace' and 'Swing Low Sweet Chariot' are virtually the same tune only upside down has great freakout potential in any collective improvisation-type context thing.

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          1. by selmer 4evr
            (309 posts)

            19 years ago

            Re: Reed Tips for Alto

            THE REFERENCE TO MOSES is because Moses was left hiidden in the reeds by his mother with sister Miriam keeping watch only to be eventually found by Pharaoh's daughter . As for sandpaper NO GO ( it is the wilderness of reed work ) use wet reed rush ( get it from Leblanc ) or Vandoren has a reed tool made of glass . Sandpaper disrupts the fibre ends of the reed and prevets their sealing . if you are looking for a methodology of working reeds I have Bonade's notes on this i could scan and email

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          2. by gardenshed
            (20 posts)

            19 years ago

            Re: Reed Tips for Alto

            Don't go to a lot of trouble, please. But it would be great to have such a thing. Is it aleady somewhere I can download from? (of course) So why don't I just Google it for myself? Sealing the fibres... Would that be why I see a lot of players using their thumbnail? After all, thumbnails are chitin, a perfectly natural fibre, not a million miles from the cellulose in the egyptian reed casing. I'm only getting scientific to avoid having to spend money, you understand.

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          3. by selmer 4evr
            (309 posts)

            19 years ago

            Re: Reed Tips for Alto

            OK here goes i knew i would regret this first : no you cannot download I will have to email after i scan give a day or two Second: Cane is a fibrous wood that has long fibres running vertically as the cane grows . these fibres are sort of like long straws ( actually with a hole in the centre ) these straws are what soak up water and carry it upto the top of the cane for nutrition . when reeds are made the cane is cut lengthwise so that these straws end up running tip to shank on the reed . Air can and does escape through these straws ( that is why cane needs to be aged before it is cut and reeds need to be prepared adequately before being played ). these straws need to be properly sealed this can only happen if the tiny ends are sheared clean ( this is why the vamp --the shaped portion of the reed needs to be cut with a knife when being made) and not sanded . the only part of the reed that can tolerate sanding is the back and even then manufacturers actually cut or mill these . Ever run your thumb ( in one direction only ) shank to tip on the reed vamp and play emmediately after to realize that it responds better YOU ARE SEALING THE FIBRES . Anyway what is it with guys on this forum--- they play sax and have no idea how the air column behaves ,,,how the reed works ,,,,where you can and can't work the reed ,,,what part of the reed will buzz,,chirp,,,be muffled,,,what is the ideal way of supporting the reed to the mouthpiece etc etc. they buy reeds with no knowledge of why this one and not that ,,they try ligatures that have no rhyme or reason to them I don't understand I feel that i am among sax players from the stone age!!!!

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          4. by saxmannwmsu
            (48 posts)

            19 years ago

            Re: Reed Tips for Alto

            No need to be rude bud. :) Some people just don't like the technicalities/details...or know about them but just have their own way that works for them. To each his own. So reed rush is really the better way to go? Would you use it much like sand paper in that you'd place it on glass and then rub the reed over it? Or is there a completely different technique to it? I'm intrigued! I've seen those Vandoren things...I don't trust it. I don't trust Vandoren in general, but that's me! :) -Wade

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          5. by selmer 4evr
            (309 posts)

            19 years ago

            Re: Reed Tips for Alto

            You don't trust Vandoren ,,,so do you think you know more about reeds than they do ???? Is there marketing in this business of course there is let's not be foolish but I think that Vandoren knows more about reeds than you or I do. As for reed rush ,,,firstly you NEVER touch the vamp of the reed and you only work the areas that effect the part of the reed that is giving you problems this requires knowledge ,,example waht part of the reed do you thin out when the sound is stuffy??? Why???. Email me and I will scan and send you a detailed HOW TO adjust reeds,,, but for goodness sake get a little technical . I guess that you might play sax the same way,,, not getting technical and not caring too much about many minor things that together make a huge diffrence.

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          6. by selmer 4evr
            (309 posts)

            19 years ago

            Re: Reed Tips for Alto

            reed rush by the way is a plant that looks like a straw with veins sort of like a very small diameter Rigattoni you wet it and flatten it and the veins are used as a delicate cutting tool. leblanc sells it and it is inexpensive ,,,see below

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          7. by saxmannwmsu
            (48 posts)

            19 years ago

            Re: Reed Tips for Alto

            I never said that I wasn't technical. I just said that SOME people aren't. That's their problem. I'm incredibly particular about what I do to my sax, reeds, mpc, etc. I love the technicalities, and that's why I'm interested in this. E-mail's on the way. Thanks a bunch. -Wade

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          8. by gardenshed
            (20 posts)

            19 years ago

            Re: Reed Tips for Alto

            Just a suggestion. Would it be more convenient or you to set up a little blog to hold the Vandoren? Because the more I hear about it the more I'd fancy a look, but then you're sending it me, and everyone esle... Just a thought.

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          9. by gardenshed
            (20 posts)

            19 years ago

            Re: Reed Tips for Alto

            "Anyway what is it with guys on this forum--- they play sax and have no idea how the air column behaves ,,,how the reed works ,,,,where you can and can't work the reed ,,,what part of the reed will buzz,,chirp,,,be muffled,,,what is the ideal way of supporting the reed to the mouthpiece etc etc" All absolutley true, as far as I'm concerned. So I'll come clean. I'm possibly the worst alto player within a ten mile radius. And that's a lot of bad alto players where I come from. I've used a jubilee clip as a ligature, and Blu-tak as an octave pad (works great, try it). But I DO love to play. All day. all night and back again, drunk and sober. My problem is that I can play anything I can whistle (nature's sax) but don't ever know what key I'm in. don't read and therefore improvise mainly rom a rhythmice base and drive drummers crazy, and think that music theory is a huge confidence trick dreamt up by musicians to keep their wages high. Classic nuisance woodshedder. So I'm learning by experiment and rank opportunism and listening to people I like. So sue me. All iI need to make my life complete is The Perfect Everlasting Reed, as sought by Indiana Jones, King Arthur, and Billy Graham. Whch is when I was presented with a PLASTIC reed (Bari medium) I thought my preyrs had been answered. And Lester Young used one, so there. But that ain't happening either. The damn thing starts out strong as a bullhorn then sets up like a floorboard after 32 bars. What's the anwer, a pickaxe? And that's before we get on to the plastic coateds? - I likeum. At least I did, now, for some bizarre reason probably related to sunspot activity or global warming, they don't work for me. So I'll take all the semi-permeable mebrane mechanics and Audio-Osmotic theory you can muster. As for the finer points of reed tuning, R i g h t. See me, if I want a harder or softer sound or whatever, I tend to squeeze it out. Wrong?! I don't so much choose a reed as it chooses me, in spite of having a grip like a Conger Eel. And as long as they keep doing that, I'm happy enough BUT, when they don't, and I find myself switching reeds every ten minutes, it gets tedious. Molto Tedioso, as you musicians say. By the way, did you know that Condoleeza is musical direction for 'sweet cadence' - I think. Some hope.

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          10. by saxmannwmsu
            (48 posts)

            19 years ago

            Re: Reed Tips for Alto

            *lol* your post had me cracking up the whole time. :) Molto tedioso......great stuff man!

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          11. by gardenshed
            (20 posts)

            19 years ago

            Re: Reed Tips for Alto

            You're very welcome. my pleasure. But while we're still talking, what's your line on whistling? Undiscovered artform or bloody nuisance?

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          12. by selmer 4evr
            (309 posts)

            19 years ago

            Re: Reed Tips for Alto

            OK bob first let me tell you that contrary to belief the reed does not vibrate as some think and your problem with the plastic reed not playing well might be more a function of the table on the piece ( but i hav'nt seen it so !!) Email me I will send you some stuff!!!

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          13. by phathorn
            (165 posts)

            19 years ago

            Re: Reed Tips for Alto

            contrary to what some believe, I was taught to use sandpaper by my instructors, Allen Rippe and Don Sinta. (although, to be fair, Sinta doesn't work on reeds, he just plays low Bb's and yells at them till they work...no kidding). Work with sandpaper/rush, and a nice double beveled reed knife will help make more reeds playable. I just don't take the time to anymore, and prefer the Sinta method...I gave up on Vandoren reeds long ago, and prefer Alexander

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          14. by saxmannwmsu
            (48 posts)

            19 years ago

            Re: Reed Tips for Alto

            Alexander all the way...SO much more consistant than Vandoren, and I love the tone I get more than any Vandoren I've played in my 10 years. Oh, and screaming at my horn never works...ya gotta love it...talk nice to it! Whistling.........like the Andy Griffith Show theme kinda whistling? ...definitely annoying. :)

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          15. by phathorn
            (165 posts)

            19 years ago

            Re: Reed Tips for Alto

            no no...don't yell at the horn...you yell at the reed....reeds come and go...you can speak your mind to them:)

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          16. by gardenshed
            (20 posts)

            19 years ago

            Re: Reed Tips for Alto

            I know the sort of reed you mean. It makes you wonder sometimes what you'd get if you were to drill a little hole. Just a little one. Somewhere critical. Or even more satisfying, an office staple right through the gizzard. I think I'll get back to you on that one.

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          17. by saxmannwmsu
            (48 posts)

            19 years ago

            Re: Reed Tips for Alto

            If a reed pisses me off too much, and has been pissing me off for a good while, it gets the good old wall test. If it breaks when I smash the tip against a wall...must've been a bad reed to begin with! :)

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          18. by gardenshed
            (20 posts)

            19 years ago

            Re: Reed Tips for Alto

            Andy Who? I mean using yer gob as a musical instrument. After all, people like Bobby McFerrin & Rachel ferrelle have taken scatting somewhere else, what is the problem with the Lipflute? I did catch something with - I THINK it was herbie Hancock doing a bit in the middle of a solo, but he wasn't very good. He had no real range, which is no sin, but no real technique either. The use of the cheeks as an octave key, for instance, and he didn't really use his tongue at all, so it wasn't really whistling. There are one or two, and I should Google them up before going on, but the fact that I have to even do that, when people have been whistling for longer than we've been playing musical instruments and yet... No question about it, the humble moue is potentially a very expressive Bebop instrument. As you can probably tell, I've not been playing long, but I've been whistling forever. And my theory is that if you can whistle, you can play the sax. The muscles are the same. So whistling should be taught in schools. Less elitist than singing in some ways. And more useful as a constant companion than singing, which gets you arrested in public, or an i-pod, which is... well you tell me. It is also the great melodic nemonic. If you learn to whistle a tune, it sticks.

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