LOL! Like even Ferrari. They have all that marketing and owrship to the name. They do race professionally and win. But thier cars aren't bullet proof.  At least not their street cars. 


Still wonder about Selmer-Paris, Conn...King's, Martin's...yes they are vintage...so there's that. Guess with all vintage horns it would depend what condition the shop selling the horns is selling them in. Good shop should have brought the horns to playing condition before selling. 

Maybe I'll stick with JP horns...though I do like the Selmer-Paris Series 3's...alto and tenor...

OW!!  haha  Borgani is the same way, with some "bella! bella!" horns but disappointing quality.  Neither company seems to have brought their game up on the quality end after all their years in the low end market.   

There's a P. Mauriat ad attached to your post. At least I see it. Quickly looking at it I didn't realize it was an ad. :)

Taiwanese. Hmmm...Call me biased. I'm not comfortable sinking my cjoin into anything made in a country that hasn't established themselves for quality and reliablity like the Japanese, Germans...French? Shrug. Wondering about Selmer-Paris...what their rep has been the last decade...I'm interested in the Series 3 alto's and Tenors. 

Like Yamaha's now..82z alto..tenor..guess you're not coming to MY party. WINK. I like horns with some "back". Conn 10M's, 6M's, King Super 20's...and I WAS thinking Rampone...liked the sounds I heard...but the first comment said they aren't what they're "advertised" to be. True? First time I've heard that said. 

Yanagisawa. Great company. Excellent build quality. But the sound is not my preference...too "silky smooth". Some like that. 

To each his her own. :)

There's nothing infallible about German or French build quality, no matter how wonderful some German or French instruments are.  Some runs of my favorite Euro horn, the Keilwerth SX-90R, were plagued with warped toneholes.  It's just something for me to be aware of should I ever decide to get one.  Mark VI fanciers have a host of build quality uncertainties to deal with.  And the mediocre French manufacturers outnumbered the good ones.  

The quality of early, like 1990s era, Taiwanese instruments has nothing to do with the quality of their instruments today.  There's a lot of static that's been handed down through the years on the internet as a sort of folk wisdom, even though it has nothing to do with current reality.  And, frankly, some of that anti-Asian saxophone stuff comes from people who seem to feel personally threatened that some Asian upstart can challenge much more costly European instruments.  And guess where Selmer Paris is outsourcing assembly and parts for their new Seles/Axos line.

I'm having a little trouble detecting a theme in what you want from an instrument.  You like the Series 3? Great, go for it.  If that's your thing, maybe the 82z would also float your boat. But the old Conns and Super 20s seem to be towards the opposite end of the spectrum.  

Anti-Asian feelings aimed at upstarts that challenge the big Euro ocmpanies?  News to me. Who's feeling this way? Where did you hear this sfrom? Other forum members? 

I'd think the only way an ISHIMORI mgiht challenge a big Euro company like Buffet Crapon is in "perceived sound quality or type". Maybe some people are finding they prefer the sounds from  an ISHIMORI over a Keilwerth SX90 or MKX. 


Regarding what I  prefer to hear in horns (e.g. "bark")..you mentioned you feel Conn's and King's are at the other end of a Yamaha or Selmer P Series 3?  How so?  Many agree Conn's do have that "bark" some people like...

Also...not sure if it was you who said...didn't own a Mauriat and would never (wonder why not?). And why he would look at Taiwanese horns for that "vintage sound" vs getting a vintage sax (Martin, Conn, Selmer P SBA...etc.)...

I don't have an infinite amount of time to put into a thread that goes nowhere, so let's focus on understanding what you really want from a horn.  I don't understand what you mean by "back" or "bark" as a sound quality.  I suspect you don't want a horn that sounds like a dog barking.  So let's start with "bright" and "dark" as commonly used, though not all-encompasing, descriptors of sound quality.  "Bright" refers to a sound with a lot of upper harmonics, which is considered a "modern" sound.  You would have a lot of options among current production horns if that's your preference.  "Dark" refers to a sound with a harmonic content more towards the lower end of the spectrum.  It's more associated with American vintage horns, especially Conns.  There are fewer options in current production for that, but the Keilwerth SX90R and some Taiwanese horns are examples.  The classic "Selmer" sound is somewhere in between, with a lot of midrange harmonics.  Only you can decide what you prefer.  

Please re-read this thread carefully before you respond, to avoid misunderstandings such as the one you showed with reference to my comment about P. Mauriat.  And please try not to ramble in your response.