Saxophone Forum


by duoheer
(15 posts)
18 years ago

Improving my sound

Hey, im a high school student and i play alto. Im currently using a Meyer 6 hard rubber, Vandoren ZZ read 3, and Roverner light ligature. But im lookin for a more projective and bright sound, any suggestions?

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  1. by saxdudedc
    (11 posts)

    18 years ago

    Re: Improving my sound

    first of all, I would switch my moutpiece to a more classical moutpiece such as a C* or LT and go with the Vandoren blue box reeds. And most importantly don't use a rovner ligature. I used to use a rovner and found that I got a rough sound. Choose from a BG clarinet ligature (not the alto one), Charlie Bay, or a Vandoren Optimum. Since you are playing in a high school band, you'll probably play a lot more classical pieces so those accessories should help you. Hope this was helpful.

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    1. by saxdudedc
      (11 posts)

      18 years ago

      Re: Improving my sound

      Also, get a private teacher. He or she should know best about improving your sound

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      1. by YanagisawA-901
        (312 posts)

        18 years ago

        Re: Improving my sound

        personally: i think that everything that guy told you was wrong. but thats the beauty of opinion, you dont need to be correct. if your looking for a brighter, more projective sound that will mostly come out of you.. DO NOT go out and buy a damn Selmer S80 C*...thats the stupedist thing ive ever heard to gain projection and brighten up your tone.. those things are insanely hard to project with.. theyre almost restricting.. i wouldnt change your meyer.. you can do fine with a meyer.. Claude Lakey mouthpieces are known for thier edge and projection.. i play one and i can overplay the band in any shout section if i put enough air thru the horn. i choose not to though. and the ligature thing is pretty misguided as well. theres absolutely nothing wrong with rovners.. i play on a a Rovner Light for Jazz and Rovner Dark for our legit/concert band and both suit my needs very well.. dont go out and blow your money on a Optimum.. those things are like 80 bucks.. if im payn 80 bucks to hold some cane onto a piece of hard rubber, i better be getting more than just a ligature. gimme some food or somthin haha ya kno? thats a lot of money. maybe this dude is like some closet professional that knows that using the exact opposite equipment of what kinda sound you are going for will eventually lead you to that sound.. but i somehow doubt it lol lata

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        1. by MarkLavelle
          (300 posts)

          18 years ago

          Re: Improving my sound

          '... maybe this dude is like some closet professional that knows that using the exact opposite equipment of what kinda sound you are going for will eventually lead you to that sound ...' Yeah, it's a Zen thing... ;-)

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      2. by howard
        (2 posts)

        18 years ago

        Re: Improving my sound

        This is kind of coming in a little late, but oh well. First of all, since your playing on a meyer and ZZ's, I'm going to assume you want a better jazz sound, possibly for lead. Personally, Meyers just dont cut it for me. I played a Meyer 5 M for a while and it just wasnt what I was looking for. So I switched to a Runyon Custom Jazz 8 (the blue one). That and a fibracell 2 reed. This weekend I did a big scale concert with lots of people, and I had more people compliment me on my sound than I ever got with a meyer. I even had some college professors talk to me about 'their school'.... The point is, I hate Vandoren. The blue box... I'm lucky to get two reeds that will play. V16's... same. I think the ZZ's are the best, but they die after about a week or two of playing. Try a fibracell, if you dont like it and perfer to stick to cain, Id go with Alexander Superials. Hands down. Best jazz reeds I've played yet. And theres nothing wrong with a Roverner, thats what I play on... If you want to waste your money on an expensive ligature though, Id go with an Olegature. Anyway, if your looking for a really bright sound, like I said, get off the meyer and go with a runyon and fibracell. Great lead piece!

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      3. by Radjammin
        (255 posts)

        18 years ago

        Re: Improving my sound

        Does "projective and bright sound" mean louder? Maybe you mean Louder and big as appose to louder and thin? Just tring to grasp what you really want. I am gonna guess that you can't hear youself very well in concernt band and want to sound louder while staying tasteful. First things first, all concert band directors hate saxophones. It's the last thing they want their band to sound like. They would prefer the woodwind sound of clarient, monitone in greatness. The would prefer the French Horn Power. So that leaves you in the sax section waiting to play post 1920's concert music and solo's. A side goal might be to just try to get your section to sound better. Back on topic. The guy that told you to go rob a bank and buy thouse things seems really "my way or the highway" Maybe a better suggestion would be to take about 300 1 dollar bills and burn them in your bell. That might make you sound better too.The green of the burnt ink with make your sound warmer... heh. Louder=Larger Chamber. Brighter=More open face mouthpiece. Brighter can also be achieved by better designed legatures. So Yes a $75 lig will slightly make your sound brighter. Your Meyer 6 has a pretty large chamber(larger then an S80) and an open facing (more open then an S80) so going to an S80 is like going in the opposite direction. Probaby a more accepted legit moutpiece but Meyer is very well respected mouthpiece by all sax players. So to the first guy, I don't agree with the mouthpice suggestion. The ligature ones seem fine, but expensive. Not sure about the whole clarient leg. thing but if it works, good times. I personally wouldn't use clarient parts on my sax for ego reasons. Personally, I don't think other then for solo work or your the lead alto should you be overplaying the rest of your section. That leads back to a better overall section. The lead should phrase and you should copy. If the lead is wrong you should tell him/her.

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        1. by saxophonik
          (73 posts)

          18 years ago

          Re: Improving my sound

          Ok, just a few comments (too tired to write a book): First: I'M a part-time band director, and guess what... I play sax!! All but one band director I've ever had loved the sound of saxophones in the band. They're partly what makes a concert band a CONCERT BAND. True, saxes don't really have a place in an orchestra setting, but not many high schools offer an orchestra AND a concert band. (To all of you who are going to respond to that statement, notice I said MOST high schools, not all). Second: Believe it or not, I use a Dukoff D7 on my tenor with a Rovner Eb CLARINET lig!! For me, it works BETTER than the ones designed for thin metal sax mpcs. Much better control and you can go from loud and harsh to soft and lush just by changing your embochure a bit. (Not to mention I only paid about $45 bucks for it!) Not sure if this would work for a Meyer, or if the Meyer would be too fat for it, but you can go to your local shop and test-play anything and everything you can until you get the sound you're looking for; mpcs., reeds, ligs... Third: We don't know if this is for concert band, jazz band, or what. I agree that certain mpc/reed/lig combos will be better than others in certain situations, but that genre was never stated. We're just assuming. If you could be a little more specific, duoheer, you can probably get more specific suggestions from the great folks in this web community. I also agree with your statement about the lead sax should be the one to determine the phrasing, Radjammin. I feel that's true for all types of ensemble situations. (I also believe that, at least in professional groups, the section does it's best to match the tone of the lead player, not just the phrasing, but I don't think that matters much in the high school setting. I could be wrong... anyone please correct me if I'm wrong.) Thanks for letting me get my $.02 in.

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          1. by Radjammin
            (255 posts)

            18 years ago

            Re: Improving my sound

            Agreed, with everything except the part about band directors liking their band to sound like a Sax Choir. I have played in plenty of Concert bands, and never once have I ever in my life heard a band director say, " I want to hear more saxes" at any time other then when the sax section has a soli. EVER! Oh that and the Clarient lig thing, gross. lol Last word: I still can't think of a time when they wanted more sax........ More sax,? that's like asking for more bread on my pizza. No body wants more filler, and in most concert music that's all the sax is. Last last word: notice I said Most. I agree there is post 1920's music that appriceates the sax, but I would defintaly say that isn't the norm.

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            1. by saxophonik
              (73 posts)

              18 years ago

              Re: Improving my sound

              Ok, I relent about the sax sections in concert bands... to a degree. I came from a high school where the 2 concert bands only had about three altos, two tenors, and one bari apiece, so the band director never really had to tell us to play softer (I actually played tenor through high school, and we had no euphoniums or baritone horns in the ensemble I was in, so I got a lot of really cool solos... and was always told to play out more :) But, if you scour a score WRITTEN for a concert band, and not just ARRANGED for a concert band, the saxes, 9 times out of 10, will have many important rolls throughout the entire piece, not just doubling other sections. And Radjammin, if you have some free time, go to your local shop and just try out that Eb clarinet Rovner (if you have a Dukoff or similar-sized mpc.). You don't have to buy one, or even like the way it played, but why not experiment for the fun of it?

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            2. by Radjammin
              (255 posts)

              18 years ago

              Re: Improving my sound

              I think you will notice I never said the Eb clarinet lig wouldn't work. I just said I would never try because of my Sax Ego. heh. I took extra attention to never said that it wasn't a good idea. Concert Band? I think you read your own post you would see that you completely agree with me. " so I got a lot of really cool solos... " - um but they weren't written for you. It doesn't matter how cool they were, the composer ment them not to be played by you. You were just a fillin. I stated saxes where \ like bread on a pizza, just exra" filling" Also in high school, Sax sections tend to be large increasing the need for them to play softer. When they told you to play louder that was to makeup for other sections lacking. Once again that whole filler topic. " if you scour a score WRITTEN for a concert band" Yes, post 1920's more music was written for concert band. Concert bands have saxes, so we actually have parts that were ment to play on saxes. Now you have to also understand that the Sax is moderatly new instrument (150 years old vs a thousand years old like others) Alot of composers still don't know or care to understand how to use saxes in concert music. Like one of the other posters said, all saxes get are the stupid couter melody lines ever created by man kind.

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            3. by saxophonik
              (73 posts)

              18 years ago

              Re: Improving my sound

              Yes, you're absolutely correct about me agreeing with you, and about reading my own post then others... my first post wasn't clear. That's why I wrote the second post. I don't "hate the playa,",bro, just trying to give another point of view; just trying to say that not ALL concert band scores are crappy for the sax section. Here's a random thought: Why aren't there more saxophonists out there writing for the concert band genre? I'll bet there could be some really interresting concert music written by saxophonists. Hmmmm...

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          2. by saxdudedc
            (11 posts)

            18 years ago

            Re: Improving my sound

            saxophonik is right about the genre being unclear. I'm a classical saxophone player so I was telling all my preferences for the classical sound. If you want a jazzier sound, keep the meyer and rovner, they're perfect for it. Sorry about the misconception there. But you should really get a private teacher, they'll be able to hear you personally and tell you what you need.

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            1. by YanagisawA-901
              (312 posts)

              18 years ago

              Re: Improving my sound

              i know where radjamm is comin from ont hat.. most of the time saxes arent the melody at all, they just play some sorta bullsh*t countermelody or some kinda note/rythm pattern which is insanely monotonous.. but in very well constructed pieces.. (im personnaly talking about programattic pieces).. they are very important as are the rest of the players.. theres always a lot of horn parts written for better songs in which a lot of schools dont have a french horn player.. where do u get an alto voice?? alto sax.. thats all lol

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            2. by Radjammin
              (255 posts)

              18 years ago

              Re: Improving my sound

              Yep, If I read a piece of music that actually understands what a sax is for in music, not to just double some other sections parts, I apprieate the arranger/composer. It takes a Doctorite to understand what Saxophone is for in Concert Band. That or they actually play sax. If I have to play the Second Trumpet part, Double the French Horn off beats, Play the Oboe solo if there isn't one, or be placed in the Clairent Lake of sound one more time I am gonna Choke the composer. What's sax good for? Solo insturment in Woodwind Ensemble sound. If the piece has a modern feel, Sax sounds better in the solo role then Oboe. I don't think it replaces the Clarient feel, but it feels more modern then Oboe.

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            3. by CountSpatula
              (602 posts)

              18 years ago

              Re: Improving my sound

              Back on subject, if you want a louder/brighter sound ive heard that Jumbo Java mouthpieces are loud and on the bright side. I play on a dukoff D8 right now and it suits me.

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            4. by Radjammin
              (255 posts)

              18 years ago

              Re: Improving my sound

              I play a Jumbo Java for Jazz, I would not recommend it for any legit playing. It's as subtle as sledge hammer. I personally love it in Jazz, just have to learn how to control it. It is not a mouthpiece I would ever recommend as a legit setup. It is really loud for a hard rubber mouthpiece. God I love it!

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            5. by Bollen
              (39 posts)

              18 years ago

              Myths, myths and myths

              With all due respect to all the rest of "forumers" I must disagree with most opinions. The sound comes from the player NOT the mpcs. I saw this swedish tenor player in Barcelona last year and he played a very closed Selmer classical mpc with 1 1/2 classic vandoren reed and he had a huge coltranish sound. I aslo met another tenor player in Copenhagen 2 years ago who played a Dukoff D and sounded like Stan Getz. It's all about the way you blow, the type of mpc only changes subtly the color. Ah yes! I also saw this clinician in Paris playing one of those cheap Yamaha mpc that come free with the horn (made of plastic) and he sounded like Brecker, he was trying to make the same point as I. Long tones, sound exersises, the cavity of your mouth, this is where it all comes from. The gadgets are just for the final touch, when you already found your sound.

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            6. by Radjammin
              (255 posts)

              18 years ago

              Re: Myths, myths and myths

              I guess you could get a long hose and vibrate some wood at one end and sound like Charles Bird. A professional can sound great on anything. If someone is asking how to improve their sound, there not a professional. Do you really think telling someone to go "paint the fense" is the right answer to convey. Yes long tones are the right answer. VG. But are you going to sit in a practice room and help them? No. So how about tirng to recommend something that has been proven to help other players. I think I will bet you a Billion Dollars that some of thouse professions at some time in their carrer have played something other then a cazoo to create their sound.

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            7. by Bollen
              (39 posts)

              18 years ago

              Re: Myths, myths and myths

              I must apologize if I have offended you in some way, but I say what I say precisely because I wasted years (and a lot of money) trying mpcs and reeds when the answer was right in the closet with those long tones... Also when I say long tones I don't mean mindless blowing on a single note with the same attitude, I mean exploring all the possibilities of your lips, jaws, pressure and realize what huge differences it produces, once you find exactly the sound you were looking for, then maybe it's time to go shopping for some fence paint. Respectfully yours.

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            8. by jschuth
              (10 posts)

              18 years ago

              Re: Myths, myths and myths

              I agree that people tend to get hung up on the equipment. It is fun isn't it? We're all set-up junkies at heart, neurotic sax players that we are. A high school (even college) student is better off getting back to "Top Tones for Sax", S. Rasher. As far as the Meyer 6...it will serve well. I've played a NY Meyer 5 on alto and my Otto Links on tenor for >30 yrs. 75% of the sound issue is behind the mouthpiece.

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            9. by jschuth
              (10 posts)

              18 years ago

              Re: Myths, myths and myths

              I agree...No doubt the setup is important. I'm fortunate enough to play on some awesome equipment. All I'm saying is that young players need to focus on technique and develop their chops. They seem to want a quick fix and there isn't one.

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            10. by WillieM96
              (3 posts)

              18 years ago

              Re: Myths, myths and myths

              I disagree. While I can get the sound I want on just about any setup, sustaining it is difficult. My friend has an incredible mark VII tenor with a Dukoff mouthpiece and the sound I can get on it is out of this world. If I go back to my Yamaha sax, I can still manage to get a similar sound for brief periods but it is simply not sustainable. Mouthpieces and accessories help you maintain and sustain the sound you want.

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            11. by Radjammin
              (255 posts)

              18 years ago

              Re: Myths, myths and myths

              I am on your side as you can see Willie. Equipment doesn't make the man, but it's the investment a saxophonist has to make. As I already said, a professional saxophonist can sound great on anything, but the thing I want you all to realize is that he didn't use a rubber hose to find that sound. He used proven sax setup to find it. Miles used a Martin Committee Trumpet, Byrd used a Conn 6m later a Mark VI, and so Coltrane had a Mark VI. I think a beginner might not be able to buy a 4k sax, but they can at least buy a good mouthpiece and ligature. Those purchases don't have to go over $150 to buy items that will be proactive to your saxophonist growth. Playing on Crap is not proactive. It is going to make it harder to learn, and only slow you down or stop you in your journey. Please stop all this feel good posting, as I think it only hurts players tiring to become better. They might read your hallucinations and spend years realizing your were were smoking the peace pipe.

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            12. by Bollen
              (39 posts)

              18 years ago

              Re: Myths, myths and myths

              You see, now you are just being offensive. I spent a month on a tour with a big band I won't mention, where all the sax players had extremely expensive mpcs and ligatures, gold plated, precision this and the other, hand selected reeds, etc. And I'm sorry to say, but not one of them had a half decent sound, and these are professionals I'm talking about and they play like this nowadays because no one told them when they were students that the set-up is only a color and not a quality.

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            13. by Bollen
              (39 posts)

              18 years ago

              Re: Myths, myths and myths

              Oh yes! One more thing; Charlie Parker played a plastic saxophone on his recording the quintet Jazz at Masey Hall and he still sounded like Charlie Parker! Expensive set up will make you sound subtly better, only subtly.

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            14. by blackfrancis
              (396 posts)

              18 years ago

              Re: Myths, myths and myths

              Make sure your horn works right. Practice. Listen (and not just to sax players). Play gigs. The Meyer should do. You gotta put in the work.

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            15. by Radjammin
              (255 posts)

              18 years ago

              Re: Myths, myths and myths

              You heard it here from Bollen, Buy a Plastic saxophone and you will sound like Charlie parker. I just recommended buying a rubber hose, but I guess he one upped me.

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