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by JDZHENG
(1 post)
18 years ago

Improvising

Im in a high school jazz band. i need help with improvising. i always play wrong notes even thought i kno wats in the chord. i just dont kno how to play them to make them sound good. ne advise would be great!

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  2. by saxplaya81
    (110 posts)
    18 years ago

    Re: Improvising

    The absolute number one thing you have to know when improvising is your scales and chords. You need to be practicing them EVERY SINGLE DAY until you can play them backwards forward up down sideways. I suggest playing scales and chords as your warm up routine. The best way to start is first learning all the scales, major and minor, and very important to practice with a metronome. Start off playing them as eighth at about 60-80 bpm and practice until you can get up to 120-150bpm playing them straight and in thirds. Once you get the scales down learn the chords for each scale practicing the same way with the metronome as above. Another good thing to learn is the sequence of chords in each key what i mean is take the key of C for example. Learn all the chords in that key i.e: CM7 Dm7 Em7 FM7 G7 Am7 B half dim7 do that for all 12 keys Thats gonna be your key to learning how to improvise once you get all that down then start learning the cool scales like the blues and major and minor pentatonics. Once you get to the point to where you can play all that from memory and through the full range of the horn and in different patterns you'll be well on your way. There isnt a day that goes by where i dont practice scales and chords. Practice and mix em up playing in different patterns that's how you're gonna find your groove man. 2 books I highky recommend are Patterns for Jazz by jerry coker, and building a jazz vocabulary by mike steinel. PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE

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    1. by golferguy675
      (600 posts)
      18 years ago

      Re: Improvising

      Saxplaya, I'm not sure what you meant by this being in the key of C: CM7 Dm7 Em7 FM7 G7 Am7 B half dim7 At first I thought you were going through the modes of a major scale, but Em7 is the 2nd mode of D major, not the third of C. The third of C would actually be the E phygian scale, which would be E(b6)(b7). If this isn't what you were trying to say, then please explain, I haven't seen that sequence before. Also something I haven't seen mentioned much is resolutions. It is very important to resolve from one chord to another. A resolution is typically moving a half step to move from chord tone to chord tone when changing chords. Notice I did say typically. For example: Going from G maj7 to C7, you could make a 7-3 resolution by going from F# to F natural. It takes practice to catch them on the right on the upbeat where they change, but it sounds really nice. You could make it easier by just playing quarter notes in resolutions, to give yourself more margin for error. Anyway, there's all sorts of ways to make these resolutions, just look at the chord and see where one can go. Another good one is to resolve from the b9 in a dominant chord. Just thought I'd pitch that in there... ; )

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      1. by saxplaya81
        (110 posts)
        18 years ago

        Re: Improvising

        Here is a C major scale. C D E F G A B C Each one of those scale degrees is also a root position for that degrees chord. Ie C is the first note of the CM Chord, D is the first note of the Dm chord in that key and so on and so on. IEE. roman numerals A II V I progression in the key of C consists of Dm7 G7 CM7. Thats what chord changes are based on in a song, A certain key and chords based of the scale of that key, thats why i say learn all the chords from each scale and their degrees.

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        1. by golferguy675
          (600 posts)
          18 years ago

          Re: Improvising

          You are correct on that part, you had the second degree right and the fifth, but a lot of those you were not even close on. Like I said, for example: the 3rd degree of C major is E phrygian, not E minor as you stated. The whole concept is each degree translates to the same notes...i.e., a C maj scale goes C D E F G A B C, and a D myxolydian(dominant chord) scale is D E F G A B C D. So the 3rd degree would just be the C maj scale starting on E, and E F G A B C D E is the E phrygian scale. And so on, with for example the Lydian or Locrian scales, which are also degrees of the major scale. This same concept also applies to degrees of melodic minor and harmonic minor scales.

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        2. by saxplaya81
          (110 posts)
          18 years ago

          Re: Improvising

          Ok now you are trying to twist my words around to make yourself sound right, Had you paid any attention you would know that the whole time I was refering to CHORDS. So in the key of CM, if you start on E, and construct a chord, you get OMFREAKIN GOSH, AN E MINOR7 CHORD. E G B D. So stop trying to make yourself look smart.

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        3. by golferguy675
          (600 posts)
          18 years ago

          Re: Improvising

          Ok, I thought you were referring to scales. Thank you for clarifying. That clears up a lot, now I can quit trying to make myself sound half as smart as you, who are the biggest musical genius in the world. I am unworthy to participate in a discussion with you. I might as well cancel my membership here. Can I have your autograph?

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        4. by kelsey
          (930 posts)
          18 years ago

          Re: Improvising

          Golferguy, please fill in your community profile. (if you are a kid it's nice for us to see where you are coming from.) Please don't get your feelings hurt so easily. He was only being rude and a know it all. I do that all the time because my ego gets in my way. By the way, you can have my autograph.........Kelsey
          Barry Kelsey

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        5. by kelsey
          (930 posts)
          18 years ago

          Re: Improvising

          By the way Golferguy, you are very wrong......Kelsey
          Barry Kelsey

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        6. by golferguy675
          (600 posts)
          18 years ago

          Re: Improvising

          Kelsey, my feelings were not hurt by saxplaya18. The internet can not channel my tone to readers, but I assure you, it was filled with scathing sarcasm, rather than hurt. ; ) I learned a long time ago not to take people on these type of places too seriously; it's way too frustrating. I refuse to fill out the profile or anything else that would give an idea as to my experience or level, because I think if I told you I was a student here, I might be taken to lightly, and if I told you I was a professional, people might take what I say to seriously. That's the reason I like internet boards, people are judged on their knowledge and attitudes, not background.

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        7. by golferguy675
          (600 posts)
          18 years ago

          Re: Improvising

          Very wrong...? Pray tell?

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        8. by golferguy675
          (600 posts)
          18 years ago

          Re: Improvising

          Oh, geez...you mean like where I gave the dorian minor scale and called it the mixolydian?? Hahaha, I'm playing in G so much on alto, I guess I just typed that without thinking. I'm sorry, yes I realize that the myxolydian scale is the 5th mode, which would make the 5 degree of Cmaj G A B C D E F G Wow, I feel dumb...

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        9. by kelsey
          (930 posts)
          18 years ago

          Re: Improvising

          golferguy, being dumb and not knowing everything are two different categories. I'm sure you are not dumb. You do have a serious interest in saxophone and jazz. They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Just listen to what the people are saying and think about it before you answer. I'm sure you are a good guy and certainly a fellow sax player.........Kelsey
          Barry Kelsey

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        10. by golferguy675
          (600 posts)
          18 years ago

          Re: Improvising

          Haha, Kelsey, you take what I say too literally. I said I felt dumb, not that I thought I am. I made a dumb mistake in my earlier post, which is the one I am assuming you were referring to when you said I was "very wrong." I notice you have this keen ability to talk down to me without actually coming out and saying anything mean or arrogant. I don't like it. ; )

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        11. by Sax Mom
          (964 posts)
          18 years ago

          Re: Improvising

          Golferguy, you said, "If I told you I was a student...If I told you I was a professional..." What's wrong with just telling us the truth? Hopefully, all of us are still students, learning forever. That's why we're here. Hopefully all of us have attained some kind of proficiency, so that we can share with others what works for us, what doesn't. You say you like internet boards "because people are judged on their knowledge and attitudes, not background," but your attitude seems to be one of defiance and snobbishness. It makes you seem like a novice who's embarrassed to be who he really is. If you are a student who has attained vast experience and knowledge, I'd like to know that. You should be proud of that (though not arrogant about it). I prefer to deal with real people, even on the internet, not necessarily with those who pretend to be something they are not.

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        12. by golferguy675
          (600 posts)
          18 years ago

          Re: Improvising

          Saxmom, I stated my reasons, and I'm going to stand by them. I'm sorry if I'm coming off defiant or snobish, but I am getting a lot of things thrown my way right now that really have nothing to do with this thread. My sarcastic reply to saxplaya only came as a result of an angry arrogant post by him. I was irked by it, and chose the passive-agressive route, rather than just being blunt and firing back at him. If I need to clarify anything or justify my actions further, you can reach me at [email protected] ; )

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        13. by saxplaya81
          (110 posts)
          18 years ago

          Re: Improvising

          LOl its one thing to have an ego and quite another to know the difference between an Em7 chord and an E phyrgian scale.

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        14. by saxplaya81
          (110 posts)
          18 years ago

          Re: Improvising

          LOL, It's funny how now that you finally admitted that you are WRONG, now you go on the defensive and try to be insulting. I understood what you were saying and as far as scales you were right. Too bad you were on the wrong subject. But as far as my genius i'd have to give some of the credit to my masters in jazz studies and minor in music ed. from uci and uwm and not too mention the last 5 years i've spent as an educator.

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        15. by golferguy675
          (600 posts)
          18 years ago

          Re: Improvising

          I'll admit I'm wrong or when I misinterpreted something when I do. The reason I "went on the defensive" was because you said that I was merely trying to make myself look smart. You do seem very knowledgable, but for having recieved a masters in jazz studies, and for having teached for 5 years, I would think that your maturity level would be just a bit higher than you've demonstrated. I.e., capitalizing 'wrong'? The whole 'LOL' thing at the beginning of every reply?

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        16. by Geronimo
          (12 posts)
          18 years ago

          Re: Improvising

          wow...for sumone who has spent the past 5 years as an educator u sure are acting childish... and yeh we're all proud of ur masters in jazz etc....would u like a medal..? or a chest to pin it on?

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        17. by CountSpatula
          (602 posts)
          18 years ago

          Re: Improvising

          Geronimo, Please don't try to start something that ended 5 days ago. Thanks.

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      2. by Radjammin
        (255 posts)
        18 years ago

        Re: Improvising

        And that's a great idea. I am just going to give him a little head start. Get Band In A Box (an automated accumpany program) Then plug in some cord changes, maybe the get a real book and type them in from there, or just pug in the circle of 5ths or 4ths. Then set the song tempo(metronome+chords) to the desired temp and work with it just like you would do a metranome. The benifit here is your in a much more realistic enviroment but you still have control of the tempo so you can slow it down if needed. I would sugest working on Be-Bop scals (adding the #4 to the scale) like G - A - B - C - C# - D - E - F# - G on G maj 7 or Domainant scales. G7 G - A - B - C - D - E - F(natural) - G - A I think this applied direction vs. what saxplaya81 suggested would be more productive. So I am saying I agree with saxplaya81 in what is required to become better, I am just recommended more modern tools to get there.

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        1. by saxplaya81
          (110 posts)
          18 years ago

          Re: Improvising

          One thing you guys need to realize with beginning improvisors is you need to give them a base to build off of, you cant just tell someone to play a bebop scale if they cant even play the right notes in a major scale or chord. Simply forget all the mumbo jumbo everybody else is saying, and learn the BASICS, Major and minor chords and scales because this is what music is. Once you get a basic understanding of that then you go on learning all the other stuff. If you cant play a Cmajor scale alone how are you gonna be able to construct a C bebop scale.YOU CANT BUILD A SKYSCRAPER FROM THE TOP DOWN!!!!! So start simple and get the basics down from memory.

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          1. by saxplaya81
            (110 posts)
            18 years ago

            Re: Improvising

            Band in a box is cool!

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        2. by kelsey
          (930 posts)
          18 years ago

          Re: Improvising

          Good advice radjammin. Band in a box would be a great help. When I was learning to play jazz I had to go around to the bars and sit in with bands in order to play with a decent rhythm section. The real book will give him the basic changes. Band in a box also has that solo feature and it might be helpful to get ideas on what to play as well........Kelsey
          Barry Kelsey

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          1. by knorter
            (205 posts)
            18 years ago

            Re: Improvising

            Rad, Great advice but I just wanted to clarify a theory thing. Technically the major bebop scale puts the added chromatic tone between the fifth and sixth scale tone ex: G A B C D D# E F# G the example you gave was implying the dominant of G which is D7 and playing the D dominant bebop scale. That sounds good also but is not the G major bebop scale. Kristy

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          2. by knorter
            (205 posts)
            18 years ago

            Re: Improvising

            ps--what kind of mic do I need to record myself? I have one that plugs into my minidisc. Can I use that? I really am an idiot when it comes to computers.

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          3. by golferguy675
            (600 posts)
            18 years ago

            Re: Improvising

            Yes Kristy, the mic with the minidisc should work fine. Minidiscs recorded really nicely, I really need buy one of those.

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          4. by peter090
            (155 posts)
            18 years ago

            Re: Improvising

            Depending on the quality you are looking for almost anything will work. To record rehearsals I use a cheap condensor mic that came with a Dell computer I got several years ago. As far as uploading the mini-disc to a computer the only option on mine is to record it to the computer from the headphone out as an analog signal. The newer models may have a digital out but the older models only had digital inputs to upload stuff to the disk.

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          5. by Radjammin
            (255 posts)
            18 years ago

            Re: Improvising

            Your right about the scale. I forgot where to put my J-E-L-L-O. Hahaha. Both turns would be helpfull to work on over the Band in a Box. My main point in that post was to not say the other guy was wrong, he sounded just like my teachers in college, but to Modernize his suggestions. Today tools like Band in a box are far better to use then a simple metronome. Not that a Metronome won't help you just as well but it will take twice as long and your really only getting confortable playing with a ticking box vs. actual drums. So a thin road to walk. He's right just a little dated in his responce. Concerning the Mic, Your pc is only going to take 2 type of mics Analog, which will be like a headset plug, or USB (which will support much more advanced mics with condensors) Your Minidisk mic will probaby not work. You can try to see if will plug into the anlog jack but unless the plug looks like the one your speakers or is a USB (USB is the funny tiny square plug, very common now a days for Mice and Keyboards/Cameras/anything new. ) USB is also the standard for Memory sticks or flash drives, you might use them to cary arround data. They kind of replaced Floppy disk and are more usefull then Burning everything to CD. So in Short you need an analog mic for computer or a usb mic.

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          6. by golferguy675
            (600 posts)
            18 years ago

            Re: Improvising

            Radjammin might be right, but I thought that minidisks could be plugged into PCs, so you could tranfser the media from there. I dunno, I could be wrong.

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          7. by Radjammin
            (255 posts)
            18 years ago

            Re: Improvising

            I wasn't going to say anything, I have read about using a mini disk recorder, but I don't own one. What Golf says here makes more since. My experience with Sony is they don't use many industry standards, I suspected the mic to be some other standard, Uploading the recordings after you were done, where tedious, seems more possible. And I know from reading can be done. I personally think Mini Disk recorders fit a nitch that is really no longer there. The era before quality condenser mics for PCs, but now there are a few out on the market so you can record directly to pc and use powerfull equipment from companies like Samson, a mic standard. You could say dealing with turning on the computer the mic is attached to and getting the software up is tedious, but no worse then trying to get the recording off the minidisk. Pick your poison. And now with mixing software and Band in a box getting so impressive, it just makes since to do your recording on the pc, then deal with adding it to the pc from an outside souce. I use a Samson C01U USB Mic I just bought, but someone told me other cheaper USB Mic work well. I didn't try them. The Samson was kind of, I want one, buy. Maybe you can buy it from a mainstream store and take it back if you don't like it? Like Target or Best Buy? just my 2cents.

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        3. by kelsey
          (930 posts)
          18 years ago

          Re: Improvising

          I wanted to add, I checked out your web site. Looking good! I also heard that famous Band in a Box rhythm section on your recording of Autumn Leaves. Kristy's right about the be bop scale. Keep on Keep'in on.........Kelsey
          Barry Kelsey

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        4. by chiamac
          (586 posts)
          18 years ago

          Re: Improvising

          band is a box is great! It's even better when you have a mic, headphones, and some sort of mixer. I monitor everything though my headphones and can hear my "real" tone though the mic, and the phones cut down on room noise as well. =) but yes, scales, scales, and scales!!!! learn them, be comfterable playing in every one of them, and know at least the basic changes in the tunes you're soloing on.

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        5. by kelsey
          (930 posts)
          18 years ago

          Re: Improvising

          When I practice piano I sometimes use my Mackie 1202 mixer with a dedicated sound module (Roland Sound Canvas) midi interfaced with my computor (this is not the cheap Sound Canvas you can install in the computor) with phones plugged into the mixer or without phones into a small amp and speakers to play along with my band in a box tracts. I plug the keyboard directly into the mixer. It can be used with my flute or saxophone by just plugging in a mike to the mixer. I can record or just practice by coming out of my mixer to where ever. I'm afraid I've just been as clear as mud......Kelsey
          Barry Kelsey

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        6. by chiamac
          (586 posts)
          18 years ago

          Re: Improvising

          I got most of that, but you didn't get into what you're using midi for. now i wonder if band in a box will let me use an external keyboard, or synths... it's be fun to use a 606, juno 60, and other music making madness!

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        7. by kelsey
          (930 posts)
          18 years ago

          Re: Improvising

          My midi equipment is older and dosen't have a hot wire. I have to use a midi interface between the computer and my modules. With the midi interface you can run any sound souce that's midi. You could play your 606, juno 60 or any midi keyboard. There is documentation in the band in a box for most of the older stuff and all the hot newer stuff. It goes like this-- Band in a Box in the computer/ out of the computer by midi interface sending midi information to sound module/ audio out of the sound module to mixer/ out of the mixer to earphones or an amp with speakers......Kelsey
          Barry Kelsey

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        8. by chiamac
          (586 posts)
          18 years ago

          Re: Improvising

          "My midi equipment is older and dosen't have a hot wire. I have to use a midi interface between the computer and my modules. With the midi interface you can run any sound souce that's midi. You could play your 606, juno 60 or any midi keyboard. There is documentation in the band in a box for most of the older stuff and all the hot newer stuff." this has opened a big can of worms for me... something about havnig 3-5 more pieces of audio equipment just sounds like fun! =)

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        9. by kelsey
          (930 posts)
          18 years ago

          Re: Improvising

          To the younger players here: Ideally, we need to be able to play anything we can think of and we have to be able to think of really good stuff. We need to have the horn completely under our fingers. Any aid like band in a box or electronic devices are good. Record yourself and listen back to hear what you may be doing wrong. Listen to the masters every chance you get. If someone knows more than you, listen and don't argue. Practice hours every day but don't forget to have a little fun.....Kelsey
          Barry Kelsey

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        10. by Stiles B
          (101 posts)
          18 years ago

          Re: Improvising

          Kelsey is spot on here. Knowing your scales are important, but having a good sense of melody is important too. If you can't sing it, you might not be able to play it. Develope your ear and listen to players that are better than you. What worked for me was to play with musicians that were superior to me as it always had the tendency to elevate my level of play. Of course you're going to get cut now and again, but that's one good way to learn. Keep in mind that we all learn and improve at different rates, so don't get discouraged if it doesn't happen all at once. 99% of us were at the same level when we started and the remaining 1% were geniuses.

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        11. by jamterry
          (573 posts)
          18 years ago

          Re: Improvising

          You have two sets of licks to learn on a saxophone. All you need to do is get your Eb licks and your Bb licks down. I didn't know anything about scales or chords when I started except how to play them in the songs in our sets. You will learn that stuff from playing. Ultimately you want to play your own licks instead of a Charlie Parker book. If you don't feel it, don't play it. Don't make it so hard !!!! When I was a kid, a guitar player asked me if I could freak freely and I just marked a few stepping stones until I got the idea where I could go. When you get in a jam , ask what key it's in, and tippy toe around until you learn the changes. After you got it dialed in, let it rip. When you play seriously, you don't have time to think. Personally I would worry about how you sound as opposed to theory. You can play over the moon/AUG, but if it has no feel, it's karaoke. Concentrate on dynamics and articulation. Jim Flabbersole will make you into one of a million clones. Terry

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        12. by golferguy675
          (600 posts)
          18 years ago

          Re: Improvising

          "Jim Flabbersole" Hahahahaha, sorry, but that's was funny.

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      3. by Mike P.
        (13 posts)
        18 years ago

        Re: Improvising

        One site that helped me...I have been playing over twenty years and was never really that good at improvising. I played alot of classical but wanted to learn to improvise with more skill. I stumbled across this site which had alot of free stuff on there including--all of the blues scales; II-V-I progression etudes, Be-Bop licks etc...all for free. Go to www.capitolquartet.com (Once you are on that site, go to the sax tutor page, hook up your printer and have fun! It has already helped me out tremendously as I have had several solos lately that required me to improvise and they sounded great! Have a blast!

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      4. by Dark Eyes
        (138 posts)
        18 years ago

        Re: Improvising

        One site that helped me with improvising a great deal was Pete Thomas's website,

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        1. by dee
          (23 posts)
          18 years ago

          Re: Improvising

          Hey Darkeyes, that link doesn't exist... at least it hasn't for me. It sounds great but I've been trying to get on and it has "fatal errors". Now that does sound scary doesn't it? dee

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          1. by Dark Eyes
            (138 posts)
            18 years ago

            Re: Improvising

            Try this one and if doesn't work then try typing it in on the web address box. www.petethomas.co.uk/ hope it works, Dark Eyes (unloved thesis)

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            1. by dee
              (23 posts)
              18 years ago

              Re: Improvising

              Thanks for that dark eyes. Looks good. There's a heap in there. I'll dig into it later tonight. I don't even mind the cornball website that much. Gee I'll have to send him a cheque dee

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            2. by jamterry
              (573 posts)
              18 years ago

              Re: Improvising

              There is no set formula for improvising. You get it when you get it. Ear and practice are big factors. Terry

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            3. by dee
              (23 posts)
              18 years ago

              Re: Improvising

              Hey Terry can you give me advice with tonguing techniques. I'm getting all tongue tired . I've always had a lazy tongue technique I assume it's from being self taught. But some pointers in the right direction would help. It seems I'm on the other side of the globe to most of you folk, so while you're all sleeping I reading....if ya know what I mean cheers dee

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            4. by jamterry
              (573 posts)
              18 years ago

              Re: Improvising

              Hi Dee, I look at tonguing like playing the drums. You are self-taught , so I think you have good rhythm. I try to mimic drum beats and other sounds with my tongue. The tongue works in coordination with the fingers. It's all about dexterity. I saw a guy play some years back that played the same riff four times in a row. He used different tonguing and accents every time, so the riff sounded fresh each time. In your case, I say just hammer a bunch of techniques like slap, flutter and ghost tonguing with some really cool beats. You jus have to feel real good when you play. I like to play the drum fill on the old surf tune Wipeout. You can use the double tonguing technique for the drum roll. Just tu ku tu ku tu ku tu ku etc. That builds up your tongue. I like to play R&B beats with the heavy accent on the kick drum and slap tongue the snare. I hope this make sense. I don't have much education, but only playing experience. All the best to you :) Terry

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            5. by dee
              (23 posts)
              18 years ago

              Re: Improvising

              Terry it's taken me a while to reply because I wanted to think about what you have said here and to do a little home work as well. Can you explain what ghost tonguing is? I like the idea of useing drum beats as a guide to tonguing, that's cool and I've probably been doing that without knowing what I was doing. I'll take your advice and do my best. I'm not sure what you mean by the tu ku tu ku tu ku theme? dee

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            6. by jamterry
              (573 posts)
              18 years ago

              Re: Improvising

              Hi Dee, On the ghost tonguing, you're just damping the reed. Something like palm muting on guitar. Take a scale and play it slow. You tongue the first note normal and strong. the second note or ghost note is short and soft produced by damping half or less of the reed with the side of your tongue. It gives you a doodle sound. In brass intruments they call it doodle tonguing. Trombone is really hot on this since it has the slide. Just go through scales slow and half tongue every other note. Use right or left side. When you get it nailed it's fun to alternate sides of the tongue. You will develope a feel for the articulation. The tu ku tu ku is merely saying those syllables while you play. Do it without your horn for a while. You can use ta ka if you like. You can get that like drum roll, hence Wipeout. Don't let anyone tell you that slap tonguing is not important. Coleman Hawkins was the slap tongue personified.You can slap low and scream a high note into a fall. I call it a sigh , but most people call it a fall. Then you can go back up with a trill. On the tu ku you are not using your voice, but rather only your tongue and back of your mouth. Good luck with that Dee. :) Terry

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            7. by golferguy675
              (600 posts)
              18 years ago

              Re: Improvising

              Hey a lazy tounge technique doesn't have to be a bad thing, listen to Sonny Stitt. I agree that you need to have some concept of tounging so you can swing better, but a lot of that stuff determines your style, so as long as it isn't making your playing sound lousy I wouldn't mess with it too much.

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            8. by dee
              (23 posts)
              18 years ago

              Re: Improvising

              Thanks golferguy, Yeah I agree I wouldn't want to over do all this , I guess what I'm saying is I just play what feels natural, and I'm really happy with my tone, pitch and general playing. But when I listen to top shelf players their tongueing technique really seems to make it cook. I have read articles on the subject, unfortunalety they are usually obscure and don't go into basic facts. I always want to improve and if "Slap tongueing" (whatever that is?) helps then I should learn the skill and then decide what to do with the knowledge. Thanks for your ideas dee

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            9. by Dark Eyes
              (138 posts)
              18 years ago

              Re: Improvising

              Slap tounging is explained on the Pete Thomas website in some detail along with other effects. I believe that it is under the sax effects file. Cheers, Dark Eyes (unloved thesis)

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            10. by dee
              (23 posts)
              18 years ago

              Re: Improvising

              thanks dark eyes I haven't looked at everything on that website yet. What I have looked at is good though. thanks dee

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            11. by golferguy675
              (600 posts)
              18 years ago

              Re: Improvising

              Usually slap tounging is a thing associated with beginners who don't know how to tongue yet, although I suppose it's also a cool effect sometimes. But that's not the key to good tounging technique. The key is to swing hard accenting the offbeats and accent the high points in a line or when you change direction.

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          2. by saxophone2001
            (31 posts)
            18 years ago

            Re: Improvising

            Hey, I'm in high school, I love improvising. I just started taking lessons from a professional freelance Sax player, and I've learned that LESS IS MORE. DONT spend all the time playing fast notes. Leave gaps and beats here and there with nothing in them. Play the notes in the chord (Ex. C7 - C E G Bb) and just work with the notes in the chord. WHen you get good at that, throw in passing tones, but base it out of the chord. Remember.... 3rds and 7ths are key! As well, BUILD solos. Dont start off crazy. A few notes or licks here and there. When the rest of the band builds, build the solo more complex and stronger with them. It's the key.

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            1. by Stan James
              (1 post)
              18 years ago

              Re: Improvising

              Neat thread, once everyone got done pi**ing on each other. :-) I like another scale variation with both 7ths. So a G scale would have F and F#. It's neat to have 8 notes in the scale instead of 7 so you can keep the chord parts on the beat. (I practice all my major scales in 7/8. Ok, it's odd.) I learned a lot of improv by trying to keep up with the guitar player in a R&R band, so I still love to play in A and E (F# and C#). And still wish I had a wah wah pedal.

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          3. by mambo_machine
            (1 post)
            18 years ago

            Re: Improvising

            I have been playing for about 3 years , and can read a reasonable amount of medium to slightly advanced stuff. My impro skills (Something i have been trying to improve) are just not getting there. I dont really care too much, as learning it is most of the fun actually. The question I have is .. how long did some of the pros here take to really start to notice your impro skills coming along. Im interested in hearing from people who practise approx 1/2 to 1 hour a day as I do. Thanks a lot.

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          4. by musicman_horton
            (19 posts)
            18 years ago

            Re: Improvising

            When I was in college, my sax professor told me to listen to jazz every day. During that time, I was not in the best mindset, and didn't want to provide the time to do so. Now, more than 10 years later, I wish that I would have. I wholeheartedly agree that scales are of the utmost importance. Try listening to some of the big names as well.

            Reply To Post AIM