Saxophone Forum


by swingstreet
(315 posts)
15 years ago

Mark VI Again!!!

I've been working in a brass and woodwind store for over a year now, and previous to that, I worked in one for several years in the 90's. I have had the opportunity to try out many horns from many manufacturers, old and new. I'm in charge of the sax displays, and I try every horn that comes and goes from this shop. I have formed definite opinions of everything I played. Of course, when it comes to discussions of sound, it's subjective, as we all have our own individual standards, at least most of us do. However, I have found that any good saxophone, and especially one that has been properly set up will give me my sound, relatively speaking, given variables in finish, mouthpiece, etc. We sell mostly new horns, but we also have a selection of vintage horns, all in great playing shape, as they get completely overhauled, if necessary, in our shop before they are displayed. Among our vintage selections are a Buescher 400 Tenor, with the Top Hat and Cane Engraving, a 1936 Conn 6M lacquer, a The Martin alto from 1950 with original lacquer in great shape, a 1970 Mark VI alto with the lacquer stripped(not by us), and a Selmer Balanced Action tenor from 1936, and a 1960 King Super 20 tenor. All of them are good horns, yet the Mark VI is not the best of them, from a sound viewpoint. Of course, that's subjective, as I said. The Buescher 400 is one of the ballsiest tenors I've ever played. The Conn and Martin just sing. The sound of both horns just grab you. Very rich and complex. The King is another horn that has balls, yet it can sing if you ease up on it. I have played literally hundreds of horns in my time, so I have a good idea about sound and quality. Again, it is my opinion. The thing that bugs the shit out of me, and continues to, is that so many players, or pseudo-players, come into the shop and immediately ask for Mark VI's. I ask them what they are playing now. Often, they already have a Mark VI. The thing that cracks me up, but also annoys me is that at least 80% of the people who tell me they own Mark VI's do so with a swelled chest and a touch of arrogance, as if to say, "I have a Mark VI, get out of my way!" It has become a joke in my shop with all of my co-workers, because we notice the same reactions so often from Mark VI owners. The other annoying thing is that they come into the shop to try out horns that they will never have any intention of buying because they are playing it against their Mark VI as if they must validate the enormous sums of money they overspent on it. They will hand back the horns to me, and say' "it's not as good as my VI". Well, I knew you felt that way before you tried out the other horns. Why are you wasting my time, and my co-workers time? Rather than go on comparing your overpriced Mark VI to other horns, maybe you should be spending more time practicing the horn. It was meant to be played, not compared constantly to something else. We also hung a sign in the shop that says "Please do not tell us that you had a Mark VI and sold it cheaply because you didn't know the value of the horn, because we've heard it many times." No, I think you sold it cheaply because at the time you were desperate for money and maybe it was not in the best shape. Now, I have played a lot of very good Mark VI's. Personally, I think the Super Balanced action is better as far as sound goes, but that's me. I especially think that the Conn 6M that I own, and The Martin alto I have are as good or better than any Mark VI out there. Granted, the ergonomics are better on a Mark VI, but that does not translate into better sound. Whenever I play my 6M, the Mark VI players jaws drop. They can't believe the sound and projection. They have to try my horn, but complain about the ergonomics. I'm used to it, so it's not a problem for me. Sound is more important than anything. Besides, I've had the keywork adjusted so that it has a quick, rapid-fire response. The other thing is that now, there are a number of new horns that have some of the qualities of old horns, including Mark VI's, and better ergonomics. I'm impressed with P. Mauriats, especially the vintage lacquer rolled tone hole models, 66 and 67R. Yamaha has better keywork in my opinion than Selmer, and soundwise, they have gotten much better, especially with the Custom Z's and EX's. Yanigasawa is an excellent horn, and they sound great. I especially like the bronze bell model. It's almost like my Conn. I'm still not convinced about Cannonball. For every one horn that sounds great, 10 are so-so. Again, that's just my opinion, which is subject to change without notice. Keilwerth is another horn that is hit or miss with me. One model is great, another so-so. Of course, this isn't to disparage owners of Mark VI's who really can play, and consider the instrument the best tool for their musical expression. That is what having any horn should be about. Not about an ego trip about having the "ultimate" horn. It becomes the "my dick is bigger than yours" syndrome. music is not supposed to be about that. Anyway, if you play a Mark VI and think it's the greatest horn ever made, that's okay, as long as you're getting what you want out of it. The main thing is to practice and play. The horn was made for that reason, not to boost your status in the saxophone world. If you come into my shop, and when I ask you what horn you play, and then before you tell me, you stand straighter, square your shoulders and puff out your chest, then say "I own a Mark VI", I may just laugh at you.

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  1. by saxplaya81
    (110 posts)

    15 years ago

    Re: Mark VI Again!!!

    I see nothings changed since the last time I logged on to saxquest, just a bunch of people with nothing better to do then talk s**t and make stupid comments....A playing test in order to buy a mark vi? i know that was sarcasm but how ignorant can you get. Yes some people do buy the horns just because they have the money and they can, its called a collector the same way people buy everything from vinyl records to cars, oh yes saxophones can be collectibles too. If all these people are saying "it doesnt compare to my mark vi" then maybe the other horns dont compare and maybe thats why 54 years after the first one hit the shelf they are still sought after. As far as over priced i agree with that because back in the day you could get one for $600, but then again, I payed $3500 for mine, and a reference 54 hummingbird costs how much? talk about over priced. Yes, I own a Mark VI, ive also owned other selmers including the reference, keilwerths, yamahas (still have a custom z) but my mark vi is my main axe, not because it makes me a better player, practicing and playing gigs does that, its because its a great horn.

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    1. by chalazon
      (547 posts)

      15 years ago

      Re: Mark VI Again!!!

      hi there ,mr. saxplay,etc..yep, nothing's changed...smile..

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      1. by blackfrancis
        (396 posts)

        15 years ago

        Re: Mark VI Again!!!

        Do I detect the sound of a chest puffing? Different strokes, playa. I can make music better on a Conn. No need to defend something that can stand on its own, be it VI or 6M.

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    2. by kelsey
      (930 posts)

      15 years ago

      Re: Mark VI Again!!!

      Nothing has changed since you logged on last time. We have been waiting for your return as we are only a bunch of people with nothing better to do. We keep making stupid comments trying to get your attention . At last you are back to insult us like the good old days. It's so good to get the real scoop from a young music educator like yourself.....Kelsey
      Barry Kelsey

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      1. by kelsey
        (930 posts)

        15 years ago

        Re: Mark VI Again!!!

        What happened to playa? Did he go to playa with someone else?.............Kelsey
        Barry Kelsey

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        1. by chalazon
          (547 posts)

          15 years ago

          Re: Mark VI Again!!!

          Happy Holidays, JBT.

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      2. by blackfrancis
        (396 posts)

        15 years ago

        Re: Mark VI Again!!!

        You're playing with fire, Swingstreet! I could swear I just heard the pop of Kelsey's nose going out of joint and the mighty rumble of a legion of "real" sax players puffing out their chests as one! I'm with you, try 'em all out objectively and keep what you like. I had a VI for a long time, but now I've got a Conn tranny. Things are much better now!

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        1. by kelsey
          (930 posts)

          15 years ago

          Re: Mark VI Again!!!

          One should have to take a playing test and get a lisense to buy a Mark Vl. There are so many non-playing, jive talking, want to be sax players that have a lot of money, because of them the Mark Vls are priced out of sight. Those are the guys that will pay any thing for the best horn ever made, to get that terrible sound they get, where as they would be better served with a Conn or whatever. God bless the Conn owners.....................Kelsey
          Barry Kelsey

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          1. by blackfrancis
            (396 posts)

            15 years ago

            Re: Mark VI Again!!!

            Jive talkers... it's a particular problem with the musical world. There are (Conn, Selmer, etc.) owners and then there are players. Players would sound just as good on anything serviceable and they usually don't get "puffy" about their stuff. Practice more, play more, buy less.

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            1. by cuber
              (653 posts)

              15 years ago

              Re: Mark VI Again!!!

              kelsey, are you suggesting conns suck? need i remind you mr parker himself played one? (at least when he was straight) need i remind you that pretty most of the great bari players play one (the VIs are not nearly as good) and countless tenor players played conns? do i really have to remind YOU that? ...selmer players, jeez... (just kidding)

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            2. by blackfrancis
              (396 posts)

              15 years ago

              Re: Mark VI Again!!!

              Betcha Kelsey would sound just fine on a Conn- it's just that many folks like Selmers. Selmer preference, maybe- player's frame of mind, for certain. That's what's important.

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            3. by chalazon
              (547 posts)

              15 years ago

              Re: Mark VI Again!!!

              Cannonball (that's Adderly) sounded pretty good..I think he played a King..I gotta say..VI's are great horns..tho I have come across a few dogs in my time..but lots of makers have made and continue to make great horns..what's your preference?..just that..your preference..I had a 'VI alto for a number of years..sold it..I don't play alto anymore..but the VI has got to be at the top of the list..along with some others for sure. There's gotta be a reason so many really great players have chosen that horn to play...Mr.Street has voiced a very succinct point of view, and a very valid point..if ya can't blow, ya not gonna blow any better on a VI. If ya can blow..the VI may give you just the sound you want...It's the Holy Grail syndrome . I don't know if there is a Holy Grail...but I do know the VI ain't it...good luck in your search..

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            4. by kelsey
              (930 posts)

              15 years ago

              Re: Mark VI Again!!!

              Old Conns are good horns. I was issued a Conn alto as a Navy Bandsman and I have always prefered Conn Bari saxes to all others. I bought my first Mark Vl in France while in the Navy and haven't been without one since. I do prefer Mark Vls to all other saxes but I sound pretty much the same on a Yamaha 62 I have as a backup. What makes me mad are the high prices of the old Mark Vls and the reason why the prices are so high. I truly wish they wern't so popular because I may have to buy another one in the future..........Kelsey
              Barry Kelsey

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            5. by chalazon
              (547 posts)

              15 years ago

              Re: Mark VI Again!!!

              have you checked out the prices on the new selmers? full boat retail on a new reference horn is almost nine K. ya really think they are worth it? I know you can find 'em on the net for less, but really,folks..ain't this getting out of hand? I had a friend in Burlington, Vermont who sounded outrageous..playing on an old Vito..go figure..

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