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Forum » General Discussions » For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only by selmer 4evr (309 posts) 19 years ago For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only Connsax-jim and all Conn lovers give it up your hatred of Selmer ( or should I say Bundy ) is overwhelming . What will you put on your gravestones,,,Selmer Sucks? I tell you what,,, just buy a Selmer play your heart out and forget all the shinanigans you will learn to appreciate them ,,,like great espresso Reply To Post [Report Abuse] Report Abuse Web Address * Your Name Your Email Address Comment
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by chiamac (586 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only this is funny, are you a republican? onegoodmove.org/1gm/1gmarchive/002178.html#002178 I'm hearing the same thing over and over, with no real proof behind anything. Reply To Post Yahoo! AIM by selmer 4evr (309 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only The proof of the pudding is in the tasting ,,,just look around the proof is in the hands of most sax players world-wide Coltrane Rollins Paul Desmond (who was a young 1956 Down Beat and Metronome poll winner) Stan Getz (also a Down Beat and Metronome poll winner) Serge Chaloff (who owned one of those rare Balanced Bari's!) Buddy Collette (a Selmer user since 1941) John Murtaugh (says: I have played Selmer tenor for 10 years and the mark VI is the greatest ever!) Lee Konitz (Selmer user since 1944) Charlie Barnet (remember Cherokee??) Buddy Morrow All-Selmer Sax Section Fred Hemke Marcel Mule Now Where is your proof ? remember all of the above except for one is a Patriotic American preferring to play a foreign horn and a french one at that,,,,, some even chose to wear a berret. I think that if Conn could speak ,,but it Conn't ,,,,,it would say : When i grow up I want to be a Sel-mor !!! hey there's a thought for a new discussion thread. Reply To Post by bandgeek (11 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only Now hang on just a second-- I'm not sure if I am a believer in one saxophone being superior to another, I'm sure it's mostly based on personal preferences unique to every player. However, from my personal experience I must tell you-- Selmer has never been my way to go. To be honest, Selmer (or bundy whichever you prefer) was my first horn, an alto. Having a different one now I found the Selmer to be somewhat angular and not very comfortable (if that makes any sense). Just not my favorite. On the other hand, I had been searching for bari bliss for quite some time. Tried a whole bunch, and finally bought myself a Conn. Beautiful! I love it--bari nirvana I did like the Conn/ Conn't tho... lol nice puns Reply To Post AIM by connsaxman_jim (2336 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only I don't know about some of the others, but both Stan Getz and Charlie Barnett both played Conn saxophones most of their careers. I own a Selmer Mark VI. In fact, My mark VI is one of the first 50 made! I've had several people ask me about selling it. It is a nice horn, and it means a lot to me because I have much respect and admiration for the musician who bought it new and played it for many years until recently passing it on to me due to poor health. I have played many Selmers; new and old. But I play mostly jazz, bop, blues, and funk. You just can't beat a Conn 10M for that kind of sound! The 10M's just sound so big and bold! More than once over the years, I've had Selmer players ask me "How do you get such a lush, powerful tone?" I tell them.....well first of all, you need to get over the Selmer Syndrom and then go buy yourself a vintage American horn! Reply To Post Yahoo! by selmer 4evr (309 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only Connsax-jim are you talking tenor or alto ? I am not much of a tenor enthusiast but i have played some alto vintages and find them well----sort of thin ,,,,,,,,,,,,as for the action it just isn't there for me Reply To Post by barimachine (323 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only a ha there we go now to be fair i play a selmer i want a conn anyone have a 12m for cheap? haha but i digress I think it is unfair that you came in and attacked them I know you but heads all the time but to be honest that was quite an uninformed unneccasary attack. I knew jim had/has selmers and he has a pretty fair opinion now you admit you are an alto player and jim is a tenor player playing bop and screamin blues charts you like selmer he likes conn this seems to fit now you say the actions arent great mark vi's alto actions arent the end all to say the least either but as an alto player would i pick a mark vi OFCOURSE i love the alto mark vi's thats where its at. but as a tenor player mark vi's are a great horn but alot of players those who truly understand the tenor are gonna pick a 10m its a superior horn now being a bari player as i more often am. i would say that i love playing the 12m's Bb for a big band jazzy gig it can blow the pants off my series II but when im playing sax quartet or classical. no way im going to dare bring in a Bb 12m with that sound, the selmer is just superior it really is the best sax quartet horn i think yamaha is good too but the selmer mmm so it seems you guys just dont play the same way same style does that make either of you right or wrong no. but given that you selmer attacked conn hahah get it i would side with conn of the history and heart of a sax, but neither of you are wrong they are both great horns one of you being an alto player one of you primarily tenor so dont be hating sorry for the long post:) Reply To Post by selmer 4evr (309 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only Is there a martinsax-john in the house ?? Reply To Post by definition (963 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only Is there a Martinsax john? I'm probably as close as you'll get. With Jim you are talkin both alto and tenor. I love my Conns also, but mainly I love my Kings and Martins. I've had 2 VIs and a SBA over the years, as well as a modern serie III, and abhor the Selmer horns because they were so weak sounding. My other horns, would have definitely been blowing down the walls of jerhico! Selmer occaisionally made a good horn or two, but most of them are crap things without a personality to them. For the music I play and the groups I play in, if I were to get a Selmer and start using it over my King Super 20 say, I'd get all the what the bloody heck is that? comments Reply To Post Yahoo! AIM by connsaxman_jim (2336 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only I'm speaking mostly tenor. I play tenor about 70% of the time, and alto 25%. The other 5% either baritone, soprano or C Melody. I have more respect for Selmer altos than tenors or anything else. Until I got my 6M relacquered and restored a while ago, I was playing my Selmer SBA alto most of the time. The Conn 6M is a sweet horn though, and the tone and intonation of the 6M blow away every Selmer I have ever played. The 6M just screams, and it plays so easy! It is the best alto saxophone I have ever played! Reply To Post Yahoo! by blackfrancis (396 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only I have great respect for the selmer horns mk. vi and balanced action. I also respect anyone that plays legit (as you so obviously do). BUT, your original post on this thread is showing some "unbalanced action". It's not that we hate selmer so much as we like something else better. Give me a Super 20, 6M or 10M, or a Martin any day. I don't care what Desmond played, it's about what I like to play. And it has nothing to do with the ugliness of nationalism. You are maybe drinking too many double shots before posting? Reply To Post by selmer 4evr (309 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only No I don't drink double shots triple is more like it and in case you were not aware espresso has less caffein than drip . Maybe I am from a different school of thought but to me opinions are to be owned loosely otherwise they end up owning the individual . i am not personnaly attached to my opinions if someone proves A or B I hope that I am intelligent enough to adopt a new position . In these forums I see too much rigidity ,,,on both sides by the way,,,, so that it is becoming a forum where everybody is just gazing at his own belly-button ,,and frankly it is getting boring . Reply To Post by connsaxman_jim (2336 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only When it comes to jazz, funk and blues....Selmers just don't have any BALLS!!! (There! I said it!!!) NO BALLS!!! They might be fine for legit and classical (dull sounding horns for dull music...makes sense) but, for a bold, powerful "in your face and tearin' the roof off the sucker" sound....you can't beat a Conn or a King! There is NOTHING you can do to your Selmer to make it sound like my Conn! It doesn't matter how good of a player you are! Reply To Post Yahoo! by selmer 4evr (309 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only listen up everyone connsax-jim just spelled it out for all of us Selmer is out of his league ----too refined for his tastes . Dull music !!!!! need I remind everyone that adolph Sax invented the instrument for ,,,,as you put it ,,,,dull music . And if you want roof tearin sound you should play a Mister Muffler with a flare at one end . Selmer is not made for what you call sucker sound it is too refined for it . --there I said it-- Reply To Post by selmer 4evr (309 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only Maybe your alias should be changed to conned-man-jim Reply To Post by chiamac (586 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only "conned-man-jim" haha, finally the dude said something worthwhile! Reply To Post Yahoo! AIM by connsaxman_jim (2336 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only Obviously we have very different taste selmer 4evr. You like classical music, and I hate it. You say refined, and I say dull with no balls. I'd rather be duct taped to a chair and forced to listen to Kenny G for 10 hours than be forced to listen to classical music for 10 minutes! I have been playing a long time. I know my sound. I know what I like! If you like your Selmer, fine! That just leaves more vintage American horns on the market for me to collect, and I'll leave all the damn Selmers for you and anyone else who THINKS they need a Selmer to sound good! I can pay $100 for a beat up Mexi-Conn at a garage sale with half the damn pads falling off of it and a couple broken keys, and get more tone out of it than you can you damn Selmer! So who's been Conned? I just got home from a gig! I had 2 people come up to me tonight and say....."Wow, your sax sounds awesome! What kind of sax is that?" Reply To Post Yahoo! by selmer 4evr (309 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only Connsax-jim my point was and still is Adolphe Sax made the baritone to replace the cello but with more volume . how do you get to ---"in your face and tearin' the roof off the sucker" sound. Your description sounds like an abberation of the original intention. As for those two people that came up to you to ask about your sound . They had few beers I suppose--and that's fine by me-- but where I play nobody drinks and they are a little more discerning ,,,,and in that environment a Conn Conn't do it and The King has no clothes and the Buescher is a Butcher . Reply To Post by connsaxman_jim (2336 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only I have read several posts on here where people like yourself who have played Selmer have fallen in love with the sound of a Conn, King, Buescher or other great vintage American horn. The Selmers sound weak. I don't want my saxophone to sound like a cello! If I wanted my sax to sound like a cello, I'd learn to play a f#@king cello! I don't care what Adolphe Sax intended. That comment means nothing to me! Lenz Hammond intended for his organ to sound like a pipe organ too, and he hated Don Leslie's rotating speaker. But there are 2 sounds that still give me goosebumps; the full sound of a Hammond B3 organ through 2 Leslie speakers, with percussion and a touch of reverb, and the tubes red hot! And, my Conn 10M with my vintage Otto Link Super Tone Master! Reply To Post Yahoo! by saxmannwmsu (48 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only Not everything is used for it's intended use. Did the inventor of duct tape intend for it to be used to fix EVERYTHING? I'm pretty sure he invented it to seal ducts.....and that was about it. I've made wallets out of the stuff and must say that they were some damn fine wallets. :) To kinda agree with connsaxjim, I've fallen in love with the sound I can get out of vintage american tenors. It's just how a tenor should sound to me. My "Martin Tenor", for example, get a WAY better sound than my roomie's Seires II tenor...at least for jazz. However, for my legit playing, there's no horn around that beats my Selmer Series II...except a VI...but I don't have one. It's all about personal preference. If someone likes a Conn, who am I to say that they're wrong? If someone likes a Selmer, again, who am I to tell them that they shouldn't like that sound? If someone likes an LA Sax...........that's a different story. Reply To Post AIM by selmer 4evr (309 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only Why then is an LA SAX a different story ? For me a Conn is a different story ,,,but connsaxjim knows only one discussion ,,,blame everything on Selmer bad horns ,,bad economy,,, WW1 ,,,WW2,,,,Vietnam,,,Korea,,,Iraq,,,911,,,War of independance,,,maybe even the civil war . He hates Selemr so much it makes him blind . While i am undecided between admiring his passion and feeling sorry for his chip on the shoulder I find him terribly archaic in thought process. Reply To Post by selmer 4evr (309 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only Why then is an LA SAX a different story ? For me a Conn is a different story ,,,but connsaxjim knows only one discussion ,,,blame everything on Selmer bad horns ,,bad economy,,, WW1 ,,,WW2,,,,Vietnam,,,Korea,,,Iraq,,,911,,,War of independance,,,maybe even the civil war . He hates Selemr so much it makes him blind . While i am undecided between admiring his passion and feeling sorry for his chip on the shoulder I find him terribly archaic in thought process. Reply To Post by connsaxman_jim (2336 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only I hate Selmer so much! That's why I still own 2 of them! It's not so much that I hate Selmer. They just don't do it for me! It's not my sound! I think they're way over-priced and way over-rated. I despise the business practices of George Bundy and the American Selmer; most definately! Reply To Post Yahoo! by saxmannwmsu (48 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only The LA Sax thing was a joke...if someone likes it, that's their thing. I think they're crap and wouldn't tell someone to go buy one, but if that's what trips their trigger, so be it. I don't think he hates Selmers as much as you say he does. It's just the personal preference thing. Reply To Post AIM by selmer 4evr (309 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only One thing I do give him he owns two of them and i own a Super 20 but like him only for collection purposes . Anyway only he and I are making this forum swing everyone else is just listening in . we can say that Conn and Selmer ( alphabetical order not preference) are finally making music together . I also dislike what Bundy did ,,,but Jim spell it out--- the horn and George have nothing in common ,,this forum is read by mere mortals that have no way of knowing what you intend to say unless you say it clearly. Reply To Post by connsaxman_jim (2336 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only Yes, the Selmer corperation of France and the US Selmer Co. operated by George Bundy were 2 seperate entities. The Bundy tradition continues; however, with the US Selmer company. The original Mark VI's were great horns! Although not my sound, they were very well built saxophones and have stood the test of time. Still today, one will pay more for a vintage Selmer Mark VI than the new top-of-the-line Selmer horns. I don't HATE Selmer saxophones. I have owned a few other than those that I mentioned, both new and vintage. I have restored a few, and I have played many, from the earlier Modele 22, Cigar Cutter, Radio Improved, Balanced Action, Super Balanced Action, Mark VI, Super Action 80, Series II, III, Reference 36, and 54. I've played the Omega's, the New AS and TS models, and the LaVoix. The new Reference Series. I think Selmer is a rip-off! If I were to buy a new horn today, I'd probably buy a Keilwerth SX-90R. Although 8 months ago, I wouldn't have even considered one, I would also have to look seriously at a new Stone Series Cannonball. The last Cannonball I played sounded GREAT! My Selmer Series III Soprano was a big disappointment though. I bought the horn brand new! The first NEW saxophone I ever owned was a Selmer! RIP OFF!!! Reply To Post Yahoo! by selmer 4evr (309 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only Those that would pay more for a MkVI than a SeriesIII are sadly mistaken ,,,,again that vintage popycock,,, I don't buy it history will prove this right ,,,,the new series III will gain more loyalty than the VI ever did ,,,I personally think the VI is a bad horn with a small bore ,,,at least in the Altos,,, and very inconsistent across the board from year to year ,,,I only play classical and there is only one sax to consider--- Selmer--- nothing comes close ---I have even owned some Buffet prestiges and no go you need a Selmer for serious music I am now considering a Selmer in Sterling My hang-up is that this side of the pond boycotted the VII ( alto ) and never permitted that horn to evolve as it should have ,,,,we would have been all pleasantly charmed at least in the classical world Reply To Post by blackfrancis (396 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only Repeat after me... Let's agree to disagree (or on this side of the pond, different strokes) and get on to something constructive. Reply To Post by johnsonfromwisconsin (767 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only If the VI's going street value is more than the III's, then there is definately a case for paying more for it. That said, I've seen many more VIs for sale used than the series III. Most Series IIIs I've seen are brand new and depreciate considerably like all new horns/cars/computers, once bought. I like the Series IIIs somewhat. The tenors moreso than the altos. I like the Series II tenors and altos more, the ref 36 tenors and 54 altos more than anything, and the ref 54 tenor not at all. I've found a late VI tenor to my liking, but not any more so than the II, and not nearly as much as the 36. that's just my take on the selmers I've tried. Reply To Post by barimachine (323 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only jim... man you were supposed to have the poise in this arguement anyway besides the fact that you said playing classical is dull as are the horns mostly i would agree but ive been playing some really good charts lately that have been making me play classical anyway sonny rollins with a mark vi of course his is well worked and such still him with that horn will kill the the conn its amazing i heard him play and the mics werent working so he basically goes out and says f it everyone was worried he filled a giant room with a great tone everyone was sooo shocked it was amazing i still like the 10 m but his mark vi is really good, ive never seen it up close or played it but i know people who have seen him up close my teacher and he says that horn is outstanding (his vi tenor is lying there with rubber bands on it haha while he plays a yamaha custom now) Reply To Post by connsaxman_jim (2336 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only jim... man you were supposed to have the poise in this arguement. Yes, I know. I try to. All of this is directed at me, and I'm starting to take it a little personal and I'm getting pissed off! Reply To Post Yahoo! by selmer 4evr (309 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only he can't have the poise ,,he only likes dishing it out while he himself can't take it . He does't realize that he never made the silly horns he just plays them and yet he is so caught up with them . Instead of realizing that he is in the minority worldwide and keep his place he vents about his selmer pet peaves and expects all to listen and give him a shoulder to cry on . he has selmeritis under his skin and is actually more affected by selmer than any loyal Selmerist ever was. This forum is not for that purpose . For now I will let him off the hook a while ,,,but if he steps out of line I will fry him again for all to read . Reply To Post by blackfrancis (396 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only oh dear, Jim, you simply must stay in line...NOT. Hey selmer (with a small s ), this forum isn't for the purposes which you've been using it either. And for the record, I think much the same as Jim on the essential issue- I like American made horns better than French. If that bugs you, T.S. ( that's terribly sorry, old bean.) (that's bean with a small b) Reply To Post by connsaxman_jim (2336 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only There are 2 kinds of saxophone players. There are cats; who play jazz, bob, and swing, and then there are the "BAND GEEKS" who play classical and legit. It's the cats that make everyone dance. It's the cat's that people enjoy listening to. And, it's the cat's that get all the pussy! I bet you couldn't see that one coming could ya! haha. I'm a cat! blackfrancis is a cat! Chiamac is a cat. SaxMan88 is just a kitten, but he'll be a cat in a few more years too, I'm sure. You're just a BAND GEEK! But hey.....have fun with that! Cheers! ^5 cats!!! (Bird Lives) Reply To Post Yahoo! by selmer 4evr (309 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only It's the legit that make people think and ponder ,,,as the performer performs mental gymnastics with thoughts ideas and idioms . Can't you tell from this forum who is in command. Obviously the cats you speak of are all stray cats ,they have all strayed and are all whinning ,,, yes they get as you put it--- pus__ but it's all street stuff , and their playing is more like cats in heet--- they whine . Reply To Post by connsaxman_jim (2336 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only Black and orange stray cat sittin' on a fence Ain't got enough dough to pay the rent I'm flat broke but I don't care I strut right by with my tail in the air Stray cat strut, I'm a ladies' cat, A feline Casanova, hey man, thats where its at Get a shoe thrown at me from a legit fan..... Get my dinner from a garbage can I wish I could be as carefree and wild, but I got cat CLASS and I got cat STYLE! Yeah don't cross my path (Setzer Lives!) Reply To Post Yahoo! by connsaxman_jim (2336 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only Mental gymnastics huh? Well be careful! Don't hurt yourself! Thoughts and ideas can be dangerous with a feeble narrow mind such as yours! Reply To Post Yahoo! by Bleeding_Gums_Murphy (55 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only Oooh, what a dis! Anyway, I agree with Jim. Jazz is fun to play and fun to listen to, and it's a totally original form of art. You can do whatever you want with it, and when you think about it, it's the only purely American form of art that we have. If you can't respect that, selmer, then you should stick to the legit forum and go join some group of BAND GEEKS somewhere (while I'm bringing down the house at a gig somewhere). Reply To Post by blackfrancis (396 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only Mental gymnastics- the performer? Not so, Mr. bean. It's the composer that does all the thinking in legit context. The performer, at best, interprets within the narrow parameters of the so-called tastes and opinions of his or her peers so as not to be condemned by same for taking too much creativity upon himself/ herself. And legit sax is at the bottom of the conservatory pecking order, like the sackbut of old. On a different note, I like being a cat. Rowwwwrrrrl! Reply To Post by Sax Mom (964 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only I have to say, I enjoy playing Jazz on my Conn. I also got great sound for the wonderful music we used to play in Wind Ensemble under Mr. Johnson at NDSU. Anyone else remember that? About as classical as you can get. However, I won't dis the Selmer, I don't believe I've ever played one, can't afford them. Reply To Post by west (242 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only Please, keep flinging dises at eachother. I'm proud to be a band geek( which anyone who plays an instrument is ), and as weird as it may sound, considering the fact that i'm a guy, i was band MOM and proud of that too. In band, i use that as a rank. It seems BlackFrancis is the only person defending legit players in this discussion. If i'm reading the posts right, he's doing a good job. His posts make you think. the other posts are jokes and statements made to hurt him and fill in some of that void in your heart with cruel jokes. very interesting, seriously it is interesting. Proceed. Reply To Post by connsaxman_jim (2336 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only You're not reading the posts right West. Thankyou...Please try again. Reply To Post Yahoo! by selmer 4evr (309 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only For blackfrancis you are only partially correct the musician like a good actor needs to identify with the composer,, get into his psychy ,,,,understand his musical dialogue in the composition as well as the times and culture of the composition ,,,surmount any mechanical difficulties in technique,,,and then play in such a way as to completely render himself transparent so that the listener hears the music and its discussion ,,,debates and conclusion ,,not withstanding musical tension and release ,,,,, and debates ,,,,as if he were speaking to the composer himself all the while getting the impression from the musician that the piece is a cinch to play . Think it is easy try!!!!!! this is why classical musicians take years to develop extensive repertoire. By the way connsaxjim trumpets are mostly in B flat not in F . And what in the world is an emboucher ((and with my ''mostly tenor emboucher'' ) your spelling means how it's butchered,,,sorry i guess jazz sounds like it's being butchered ----my apologies ) . Say it !!!!! embouchure ( how it's mouthed ) God bless the french for having given us sax and the other one !!!!!! Reply To Post by west (242 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only There are 2 kinds of saxophone players. There are cats; who play jazz, bob, and swing, and then there are the "BAND GEEKS" who play classical and legit. It's the cats that make everyone dance. It's the cat's that people enjoy listening to. And, it's the cat's that get all the pussy! I bet you couldn't see that one coming could ya! haha. I'm a cat! blackfrancis is a cat! Chiamac is a cat. SaxMan88 is just a kitten, but he'll be a cat in a few more years too, I'm sure. You're just a BAND GEEK! But hey.....have fun with that! Cheers! ^5 cats!!! (Bird Lives) ↓Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only by selmer 4evr on 6/21/2005 3:32:31 PM It's the legit that make people think and ponder ,,,as the performer performs mental gymnastics with thoughts ideas and idioms . Can't you tell from this forum who is in command. Obviously the cats you speak of are all stray cats ,they have all strayed and are all whinning ,,, yes they get as you put it--- pus__ but it's all street stuff , and their playing is more like cats in heet--- they whine . ↓Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only by connsaxman_jim on 6/21/2005 4:13:39 PM Black and orange stray cat sittin' on a fence Ain't got enough dough to pay the rent I'm flat broke but I don't care I strut right by with my tail in the air Stray cat strut, I'm a ladies' cat, A feline Casanova, hey man, thats where its at Get a shoe thrown at me from a legit fan..... Get my dinner from a garbage can I wish I could be as carefree and wild, but I got cat CLASS and I got cat STYLE! Yeah don't cross my path (Setzer Lives!) ↓Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only by connsaxman_jim on 6/21/2005 4:19:33 PM Mental gymnastics huh? Well be careful! Don't hurt yourself! Thoughts and ideas can be dangerous with a feeble narrow mind such as yours! I wasn't reading that right? I guess i should look further back. Reply To Post by JazzSaxAttack (14 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only well guess what, I like my cannonBall!!! ya'll are crazy! why would you spend so much time arguing about the best brand when it is obviously cannonball!! Reply To Post by west (242 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only reminds me of a modern artist's painting. The crappier it looks, the more people will think it's art. couldn't resist. I gotta try one soon Reply To Post by johnsonfromwisconsin (767 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only I like Legit and Jazz. I even like to see them combined. Why must this place become so polarized to spite one another? Reply To Post by west (242 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only I don't do it because i'm in a pissy mood, i just think it's fun to have little arguments Reply To Post by JazzSaxAttack (14 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only Funny west, I agree. but what happens when you do get in a pissy mood! Reply To Post by JazzSaxAttack (14 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only by the way, I was not talking about the art work thing, that kind of hurt! Reply To Post by connsaxman_jim (2336 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only "like a good actor needs to identify with the composer,, get into his psychy ,,,,understand his musical dialogue in the composition as well as the times and culture of the composition ,,,surmount any mechanical difficulties in technique,,,and then play in such a way as to completely render himself transparent so that the listener hears the music and its discussion ,,,debates and conclusion ,,not withstanding musical tension and release ,,,,, and debates ,,,,as if he were speaking to the composer himself all the while getting the impression from the musician that the piece is a cinch to play " Geez selmer 4ever, I thought you were a musician...not a psychiatrist! When I play, I am the director. I tell the audience what I feel, and I express my own emotions with my playing, not my directors, or whoever wrote the piece. THAT'S what jazz is about. But once again, you've missed the boat, so have a nice swim! Reply To Post Yahoo! by connsaxman_jim (2336 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only As for trumpets.....I don't play brass at all. I know that Cornets and I thought that while some trumpets were in Bb, most of them were in F. I know trombones are in F, and so are French horns. I know some trumpets WERE in F. So most of them are in Bb. Cool! Glad to know that! They've made them in just about every key. Like it really makes any flipping difference to a sax player like me! I know what key my saxophones are in. That's all I REALLY care! The comment was "Why are there not more saxophones in the key of C". My answer: "Because most of other band instruments are in F, Bb and Eb. THAT was the point! West, I've yet to see you contribute anything worthwhile to this forum. So you're pissed off. Go for a walk. Pick up your sax and play for a while, or go throw a basket ball around or something. Coming on her and mouthing off isn't going to make you any friends. Reply To Post Yahoo! by connsaxman_jim (2336 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only embouchure, emboucher ombisher....I think most people can figure out what I'm talking about. My spelling is closer than many I have seen. God bless the French for giving us the Statue of Liberty, French toast, French Fries, and French bread.......and Buffet Clarinets.....but God Bless Gus Buescher, Charlie Conn, Martin and White for giving us great saxophones! Reply To Post Yahoo! by blackfrancis (396 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only s4, I learned to play legit. The most prevalent thing I found in that sphere was inflated ego. The last thing I think I would see there is a "transparent performer". Despite all your verbiage regarding the performer's exalted role, it's still the composer that feeds you the notes and tells you, as exactly as he/she can, how they are to be played. I like Selmer saxes, I like the French, but I don't like small minds and mean-spirited people. Your habit of picking on Jim for amusement is now reaping its just reward. Reply To Post by FredCDobbs (77 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only I don't think it makes sense at all to argue the merits of jazz (apples) versus legit (oranges). Both are obviously fine art genres, both have their own language, their own vocabulary, their own famous virtuosi. Some people prefer to listen to/play just jazz; some prefer to listen to/play just classical; some both. I grew up listening to classical and was exhilerated by it; in the last several years, I've listened mostly to jazz, and have been equally exhilerated. Blackfrancis seems to have the most balanced approach here; and unfortuneately he's right, the sax is at the bottom of the legit pecking order. So be it. From what I can tell, the modern giants in both genres have a deep respect for each other. Often, there is cross-over. I can't believe that a Charlie Parker couldn't have played stunning classical music had he wished to. He was very interested in modern classical music; had he lived longer, who knows what amazing blends and cross-overs he might have created. And wasn't Coleman Hawkins originally trained as a classical cellist? Debate about horn brands is one thing. Debate about jazz vs. legit is fruitless--that's why they each have their own forum here, isn't it? In any case, what difference does it make which brand your sax is, as long as you, personnally, are happy with it. When I play jazz on my 1937 6M, it's sound brings tears to my eyes. When I play a legit piece with it, it's sound brings tears to my eyes. If Selmer does for you (and you can afford one) that's great! Finally, I think that when one side of a debate begins to pick on spelling errors, they've run out of ideas. Reply To Post by selmer 4evr (309 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only That's where jazz or should i say jazz musicians (apart from those that are legendary ,,,they did have a different approach ) miss the point. If i cut my finger or whack it with a hammer the pain is more intense if I do not scream out . Bottled up emotions are of the most acute . You are all correct the composer directs,, as he should . My job is one of discipline to keep my own emotions out of it ,,,this only serves to intensify them . As for the audience,, I want them to feel the composer's bottled up emotions. If they were not bottled up he would have written poetry not music . Anyway ,,who says that emotions are not expressed within and by the actual structure of the composition . Connsaxjim my reference to your spelling was only to indicate that while misspelling you actually nailed another word on the head. You could have stumbled on another form--- embaucher ( to hire ) I have also seen this one at times. Reply To Post by west (242 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only jazzsaxattack-I'm sorry i offended. Connsaxmanjim-I know i'm not contributing to this forum. I'm not pissed off either. I just check in and see what's cookin' Reply To Post by connsaxman_jim (2336 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only I play with my OWN emotion. What I express to the audience is what I want them to hear, NOT what my director wants them to hear! I am the director! As a musician, I want to hear other musicians, not directors. I appreciate individuality and personal emotion. I want to hear and feel the player's emotion when he plays. Music is more than what we hear, it's what we feel. If you only listen with your ears, you're only hearing part of it. Listen with your heart! Rather you play jazz, classical, rock, funk, or blues doesn't really matter. It's all a matter of taste. I find jazz more intellectually stimulating because of it's complexity and individuality. I find classical very boring. I think partly because it IS so structured. It's just not my thing...never has been and never will be. I think we should just agree to disagree, selmer 4evr. Reply To Post Yahoo! by selmer 4evr (309 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only Have you experimented with a-tonal, do you like the more modern forms of classical ? Please undersatnd when i say classical i do not mean Mozart or Bethoven those composers are better performed by clarinets and violins . I do not beleive that a sax has any business playing baroque in concert ( fine for study purposes). No by classical I mean ( musique savante ) pieces made for the instrument that experiment with multi-phonics harmonics, percussive effects, as well as lyricism. For instance alto sax and marimba make for an interesting combination while one week i try to blend into the woody sound of the marimba the next I am playing with a pipe organ requiring a completely different mind set . Reply To Post by connsaxman_jim (2336 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only Give me a Fender Stratocaster played through a tube amp, a Fender Precision bass through an Ampeg SVT, A Hammond B3 with 2 Leslies, a Yamaha Motif keyboard, a set of Yamaha drums, a King trumpet, an Olds trombone, a couple Conn saxophones and Hohner Blues Harps, and I will show you a sound! Reply To Post Yahoo! by sax_maniac (984 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only selmer - the saxophone is PERFECT for avant-garde arrangements. Effects are great, but I've heard them come off as gimmicky if used too much (including altissimo). If you've got any recordings, I'd love to hear them. Shoot me an email if you want... Reply To Post by blackfrancis (396 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only Now you intrigue me, S4, and I see you're not the Glazounov-and-Ibert only kind of guy. Not that they're a bad thing. Now if I were doing some interesting stuff like that, I might be tempted to reach for the Super 20 and make it sound just a little more out of the ordinary... I think the main thing for us all to remember is that we are all in the business of bringing music to the audience, and anyone doing that is performing ann important task. A couple of points I need to make: !)Legit takes a LOT of chops and merits respect 2)Being a band geek is not necessarily a bad thing. Some cats are made, some cats are born, and some evolve out of band geeks (yours truly). 3) I hear ya, Jim! Put that Strat througha black-face Super and we got sumpin'. Mrowwwwl! Reply To Post by connsaxman_jim (2336 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only 1) Legit takes a LOT of chops and merits respect 2) Being a band geek is not necessarily a bad thing. Some cats are made, some cats are born, and some evolve out of band geeks. Absolutely! Good point blackfrancis. So there's hope for you yet selmer 4evr! Meow! Reply To Post Yahoo! by EL Seano (255 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only hey don't steal meow thats my signature. Reply To Post by bmcguire (45 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only From Selmer4Evr "The proof of the pudding is in the tasting ,,,just look around the proof is in the hands of most sax players world-wide Coltrane Rollins Paul Desmond (who was a young 1956 Down Beat and Metronome poll winner) Stan Getz (also a Down Beat and Metronome poll winner) Serge Chaloff (who owned one of those rare Balanced Bari's!) Buddy Collette (a Selmer user since 1941) John Murtaugh (says: I have played Selmer tenor for 10 years and the mark VI is the greatest ever!) Lee Konitz (Selmer user since 1944) Charlie Barnet (remember Cherokee??) Buddy Morrow All-Selmer Sax Section Fred Hemke Marcel Mule Now Where is your proof ? remember all of the above except for one is a Patriotic American preferring to play a foreign horn and a french one at that,,,,, some even chose to wear a berret. I think that if Conn could speak ,,but it Conn't ,,,,,it would say : When i grow up I want to be a Sel-mor !!! hey there's a thought for a new discussion thread. " No doubting that these were all great players. How long would your list be for Artists playing the Serie III. A horn that you quoted "would stand the test of time" The day the MKVI hit the market it was a hit. No Selmer will ever do that again, back then Selmer cared about the art, and took pride in hand crafting a musical instrument. Today they ride are still riding that wave, and charging accordingly! Reply To Post by selmer 4evr (309 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only Do you also laugh one month after the punch line is delivered? Reply To Post by geobundybari (1 post) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only Anyone want to buy a "Geo M. Bundy" baritone saxophone made in elkhart, it comes with a "Jacks House of Music" case. I will post on this site if there is any interest Reply To Post by EL Seano (255 posts) 19 years ago Re: For connsaxjim and all conn-artists only What the hell is all of this bitching about? CHILL! Jim likes Conns, Selmer 4ever likes Selmers. You both have your opinions. Reply To Post