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Forum » General Discussions » New C melody saxophone coming? by Saxon (100 posts) 18 years ago New C melody saxophone coming? This post is an attempt to get feedback on serious interest in a new tenor C melody sax. I am determined to get a new C melody saxophone produced. I believe they are the most sensible model ever made and can’t believe they are still not in production after all these years. I have approached a factory to get some made for me and they have agreed to make 100 saxes prepaid. I don’t have the money! I may be able to raise the money if I can prove there are customers waiting, there fore I invite you to put your name on the list of potential customers. To do this, Please send me an email at [email protected] with the subject line: “New C sax wanted” This will not bind you to any sale but is just an indication of interest. You could just post on this forum but that will invite unwanted comments and banter which will make wading through the thread difficult and time consuming. I am aiming to make the first production model with basic improvements such as a modern style octave mechanism and a sympathetic G#-C# key mechanism. I anticipate the price to be around the $700. mark. Any questions please email me and I will try to answer but don’t hold your breath! Reply To Post [Report Abuse] Report Abuse Web Address * Your Name Your Email Address Comment
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by Saxon (100 posts) 18 years ago Re: New C melody saxophone coming? Some have asked about finishes etc. Should be available in Gold laquer, nickel and silver. Money back guarantee. Still thinking about engraving and adjustable thumb hook etc. Reply To Post by definition (963 posts) 18 years ago Re: New C melody saxophone coming? adjustable thumbhook would be nice, not to worried on the finish or engraving(though matte silver would be nice) add me to the list of prospectives Reply To Post Yahoo! AIM by connsaxman_jim (2336 posts) 18 years ago Re: New C melody saxophone coming? same here. I would definately be interested in a new C Melody. Best of luck! Reply To Post Yahoo! by Saxon (100 posts) 18 years ago Re: New C melody saxophone coming? To get on the list you need to email: aquilasax.co.nz with the subject line: new C sax wanted. Then I will count you in and send an update when the production begins. Thanks for your interest! Reply To Post by mammoc (1 post) 18 years ago Re: New C melody saxophone coming? I am a beginner and I make music because I want to have a rest from having heavy brainwork all day long (my job). So I really would be glad to be able to buy a new C-Melody and play together with other instruments like guitar and piano (why not the famous "Blues in A" ?) WITHOUT THINKING. I would prefer a new one because my teacher told me that especially for a beginner a vintage sax would not be the right thing because the development of the instruments in the 20ies was not nearly as far as it is today and so intonation is quite difficult. There may be great sax-players that can easily cope with all these difficulties ;-) For me it would be a great help to get into playing much faster and easier ! Reply To Post by donrov (1 post) 18 years ago Re: New C melody saxophone coming? count me in. gold finish would be my pref. I agree it is a sensible model. Reply To Post by swingstreet (315 posts) 18 years ago Re: New C melody saxophone coming? I wouldn't mind at all having a new C melody. I happen to think it's a good idea. It would also offer a new tonal color to the saxophone palette. Frankie Trumbauer was one of the great sax players ever, and his horn was a C melody. I know, it was old 20's jazz, but he still was a great player. Anyway, I'm for the idea. I mean, you can still get a bass sax, even if it has to be special ordered. How many players do you see with a bass sax? So why not a C melody? Reply To Post by hightor (6 posts) 17 years ago Re: New C melody saxophone coming? "For those guitar players who have an interest in saxophone and don't know how to transpose, or those who can't play in all 12 keys, or just the guy who has to be a little different C melody saxes do make a lot of sense. But not to me........" I can understand this point of view but, having to play with guitar-oriented groups a lot, blowing in "E" on a C Melody isn't all that much better than blowing in F# on my tenor. I know, we're supposed to be fluent in every single key, but I just find that certain patterns are a lot easier to play in some keys as opposed to others. I'd like to see a horn pitched in a "sharp" key -- the concert clarinetists have a choice of "Bb" and "A" horns -- I think an "A" sax would be a useful alternative. Yeah, I know, I should go woodshed some more and quit looking for the easy way out! Reply To Post by kelsey (930 posts) 18 years ago Re: New C melody saxophone coming? Why on earth do you want a C melody sax produced? You may find that re-inventing the wheel will be a lost cause. We have a lot of old C melodys around now but are not much in demand. If you have one, finding a mouthpeice for it is another nightmare. You probably think that reading off piano music would be a good idea, since you wouldn't have to transpose. If you don't know how to tranpose you are not much of a sax player anyway. Why not get with the rest of the world and play an Eb Alto or a Bb tenor. You can't change the world, especially if you don't have a lot of money..........Kelsey Barry Kelsey Reply To Post AIM by kneejerk52 (397 posts) 18 years ago Re: New C melody saxophone coming? man who pissed in your coffee Reply To Post by Saxon (100 posts) 18 years ago Re: New C melody saxophone coming? Dear Kelsey, I have an Eb and a Bb sax as well. I find the C melody more useful! Since the vast majority of other musical instruments are keyed in C, especially the "main" instruments, it makes logical sense that C saxes would be more useful. The fact that Eb and Bb saxes are more popular (at the moment) seems to have been caused by a historical annomaly rather than by intelligent design. Therefore it can be corrected. In todays world, variety is called for and appreciated. So why not C? Reply To Post by connsaxman_jim (2336 posts) 18 years ago Re: New C melody saxophone coming? As most of you know, I play mostly tenor and alto, occasionally soprano and once in a blue moon, I might get to play my baritone. I have a 1922 Conn New Wonder Series I straight neck C Melody that I restored a couple years ago. I was somewhat reluctant to sink some money into this old Conn because I was told that the intonation on C Melody saxophones was terrible, and the response that I got from most of the people that I talked to was....why bother. I wanted to play around with the horn and experiment with it. I also wanted to restore it as a playable collectable, regardless of what it was worth. It was only by luck that I found a new Woodwind (Leblanc) C Melody mouthpiece. I bought it for around $50, and discovered that a tenor Rovner ligature fit perfectly. There were a few old C Melody reeds in the case, and I noticed that they were almost identical in size to bass clarinet reeds. After making a few adjustments, the intonation on this old Conn really isn't too bad. It has a nice sound and it's very easy to play. The thing I really love about the C Melody, is that it's a great sax to just sit in with a band and jam. I can look over the keyboard player's shoulder, or watch the guitar player for key change. There are definate advantages to a horn in the key of C. When playing blues written in the key of E or B or F# with guitar players, it's much easier on a C Melody than trying to transpose on a Bb or Eb sax. I completely agree that a new C Melody may be advantageous. You can't deny the recent popularity and interest in C Melody horns. I think Saxon's idea is probably long overdue, and Saxon, I wish you the best of luck! Jim Reply To Post Yahoo! by kelsey (930 posts) 18 years ago Re: New C melody saxophone coming? Very polite answer. Perhaps there is a need? Just please tell me the reason we need a C melody? You say you wish to correct a historical annomaly? Very interesting! It also seems you don't consider the Eb and Bb saxes main instruments, but are only a mistake your grand plan will correct. Time will tell. Or has it already told? You are only kidding, right?.........Kelsey Barry Kelsey Reply To Post AIM by Saxon (100 posts) 18 years ago Re: New C melody saxophone coming? The creator of the saxophone patented 14 different models in the keys of Bb, C, Eb, and F to cover the range of useful positions in music, which is based around the piano. Unfortunately only the Army bands were interested and so Eb and Bb went into production. Jazz musicians began with ex army instruments and so we have a predominance. The army no longer holds sway on the music industry. Pop music is mostly designed around pianos and more and more often guitars. C instruments! There is no longer a need to make learners use altos as they probably want to play pop music anyway. Surely there is room for different instruments for different genres in this day and age? Reply To Post by kelsey (930 posts) 18 years ago Re: New C melody saxophone coming? Adolphe Sax did patent 14 different models in different keys. French Milatary bands did began to replace those pesky oboes and bassoons with Eb and Bb saxophones. Jazz discovered the saxophone in the early 1900s.(best guess) For those guitar players who have an interest in saxophone and don't know how to transpose, or those who can't play in all 12 keys, or just the guy who has to be a little different C melody saxes do make a lot of sense. But not to me.........Kelsey Barry Kelsey Reply To Post AIM by chiamac (586 posts) 18 years ago Re: New C melody saxophone coming? what about those who can transpose but don't want the headache or just want to have some fun? It would be great to pick up a sax, sit in with a band, and read off of their music. I'm not sure that it's the right time to start making a new one though. I'm not sure there would be a market until vintage c-mels start going for (on adverage) $1000. I'm not even sure there is a market for mouthpieces since only a few companies make them at the moment. But I'm sure Grumpysax-JIm will disagree with me. Reply To Post Yahoo! AIM by tsax_player (76 posts) 18 years ago Re: New C melody saxophone coming? I agree it might not be the most practical thing on the market but I do'nt think that is what these guys are interested in. It would be great fun to play something with a different timbre than SATB. Not that I am bored with the standard horns but why not do something a little outside the box. Dave Pietro recorded on C-melody a few years ago and he sounds amazing on it. Reply To Post by tsax_player (76 posts) 18 years ago Re: New C melody saxophone coming? I agree it might not be the most practical thing on the market but I do not think that is what these guys are interested in. It would be great fun to play something with a different timbre than SATB. Not that I am bored with the standard horns but why not do something a little outside the box. Dave Pietro recorded on C-melody a few years ago and he sounds amazing on it. Reply To Post by Stiles B (101 posts) 18 years ago Re: New C melody saxophone coming? I might be wrong here, but I was to understand in my physical acoustics classes I took back in college that due to the length of a C melody saxes overall tube length, the horn didn't produce a very resonant sound. Since it's conception pre-dated the use of audio re-inforcement it tended to get lost in the crowd of the rest of the band. All I can attest to is that I never sounded too hot on one. Reply To Post by Saxon (100 posts) 18 years ago Re: New C melody saxophone coming? Sounds like your acoustics prof spun you a line! C mels with standard set up, as in Mouthpiece and pad,s are a little quieter, which is good for home entertainment. Contrasting with Eb and Bb models designed for projection as they were used in marching bands. The main reason for C mels quietness is the lack of resonators on the pads and the mpcs have large chambers. One of the biggest reasons for poor sound is bad reeds! Reply To Post by Stiles B (101 posts) 18 years ago Re: New C melody saxophone coming? I worked in a music store, so access to high quality (albeit not C melody) reeds was not a problem. I'm not criticizing the concept of re-introducing the C melody; I just never was a fan of them. And by resonant, I think my acoustics prof is basically agreeing with the staement you make about the "quietness" of the horn. Back in the day, it wouldn't hang with the brass or percussion. Nowadays, with proper sound re-inforcement, the playing field is level. Reply To Post by Saxon (100 posts) 18 years ago Re: New C melody saxophone coming? Since all music is based around C it just makes sense to make saxes in C and not to force leaners to get their head around transposing while they struggle with everything else. I'm sure many potential sax players have given up due to the complexity of the task. Reply To Post by jamterry (573 posts) 18 years ago Re: New C melody saxophone coming? A C melody saxophone was a roaring 20's trinket, almost like a raccoon coat, or cell phone today. The voicing is horrible. You have to transpose with music all the time. OK, i wrote a song in the key of F. The key didn't fit my voice. I had to transpose it to D Did I need a C melody saxophone to do that? I flunked out of school, but I know that a C melody saxophone is useless. Learn your Eb licks and your Bb licks. Don't make it so hard. Reply To Post Yahoo! AIM ICQ by Sax Mom (964 posts) 18 years ago Re: New C melody saxophone coming? I wouldn't mind having a saxophone in C, as it is fun to play without having to "THINK" so hard. On the other hand, Eb and Bb are the accepted keys for saxophone and clarinet, as Bb is for trumpet and treble clef baritone horn, F (& Eb) for french horn, and C for flute, piccolo, and oboe. If you don't want to have to transpose, play a flute or an oboe--or have someone transpose the music for you and write it down in the key in which you will need to play. However, if they were to create a new saxophone in C, it might be fun! I doubt it would ever gain the status of the horns in Eb and Bb, though. Reply To Post by Saxon (100 posts) 18 years ago Re: New C melody saxophone coming? If you'd like to hear what C melody sax's voicing actually does sound like, go to: www.cmelodysax.co.uk Reply To Post by deraltekluge (1 post) 18 years ago Re: New C melody saxophone coming? The arguments against C-melody are rather silly. It's like saying we shouldn't have Eb saxes...after all, there are Bb sopranos, tenors, and basses that cover the range, so why do we need Eb altos and baritones? Let's celebrate diversity! Reply To Post by Saxon (100 posts) 18 years ago Re: New C melody saxophone coming? The new C sax design I just got back from the factory where we discussed the new C sax production specs and time schedule. The development costs are way higher than I expected but within the realms of possibility still. The new sax will be a narrow bore like my Conn but will be essentially an entirely new instrument. The keywork modification will be extensive with a complete repositioning of mechanisms to enable ergonomic operation and incorporate modern advantages including high F#. There will be an option of either straight neck or Tenor style with new octave mechanism. The necks will not be interchangeable with old Conn saxes. They will be designed to fit Aquilasax Classic mouthpieces. The finish options will include Silver, gold, nickel, and black and some different combinations of bell and keywork. They will feature hand engraving and will have several different themes. For other details we will have to wait and see. Development will begin in October and production should begin early next year. It will be a thing of beauty and easy to play! Reply To Post by redef (1 post) 18 years ago Re: New C melody saxophone coming? I just bought a vintage c-mel on ebay... but I would love to have a brand new one. I write jazz charts for 5 saxes and three rhythm. I want to use.. soprano, alto, c-melody, tenor and baritone. What a sound! Reply To Post by Saxon (100 posts) 18 years ago Re: New C melody saxophone coming? have just got back from the second visit to the factory that will make the new C mel. The development date has been postponed until November but a new replacement straight neck for vintage C mels has already been tested and may go into production next month. My website has new pictures of the octave mechanism and my favourite finish option. aquilasax.com Reply To Post by STEVE GOODSON (291 posts) 18 years ago Re: New C melody saxophone coming? As some of you may know, during the 1960's the Leblanc corporation manufactured a run of saxophones which represented the entire family from sopranino through bass. These horns were stamped "Vito" and were made by Beauganier. Vito Pascucci, the chairman of Leblanc, was kind enough to open his files to me for my research prior to his death. Vito told me that the C melody horns were a very difficult sale to make, and that less than 50 were actually sent to dealers. I owned one of these horns at one time. It had a fully modern mechanism, excellent intonation, and a tone similar to other Beauganier horns. I later sold the horn to a European collector. I have two students who study "traditional" c melody music with me. I use a straight neck Conn and a Runyon C melody mouthpiece with bass clarinet reeds. There appears to be some limited demand for C melody horns, but it's not huge and to our company does not justify the tooling costs. I believe that the biggest obstacle to overcome is that there is simply no music written for the C melody in standard arrangements. I believe the lack of available music was the downfall of the F mezzo and the low A alto. Reply To Post by connsaxman_jim (2336 posts) 18 years ago Re: New C melody saxophone coming? Very interesting information, Steve. I have seen a few of the Vito horns, and I was quite impressed with them. I wasn't aware that they had made anything other than the alto, tenor and baritone saxophones. I restored a 1922 Conn New Wonder Series I straight-neck C Melody a couple years ago. I wanted to see if I could make the horn play in tune. I thought that the C Melody might be a nice horn to use on some of my blues gigs where I am playing with guitars in keys that are ackward for a tenor or alto sax. I was very pleased that with the right mouthpiece and reeds, the horn played in tune and sounded quite good. I am somewhat surprised to see so many people collecting and restoring C Melody saxophones from the 1920's. Sure tooling costs to produce a quality new horn would be expensive, BUT if the product was made more available through websites like this one and others, AND, the price was not to astronomical, they would sell. Just judging by the amount of money that people have spent to restore these old horns, I believe that they would sell. If a company such as P. Mauriat, for example, with a reputation for making quality horns at affordable prices, were to introduce a new C Melody saxophone, they would sell. The success of this product is in knowing and understanding where the market is. A new C Melody sax should be of intermediate-professional quality. This is not a saxophone that you would likely sell to achool band student. This is a horn that would appeal to experienced musicians wanting a horn in the key of C, so that they wouldn't need to try to transpose music written for keyboard or guitar. There is an abundance of music written for C Melody saxophone! Only, it doesn't say C Melody! Reply To Post Yahoo! by Saxon (100 posts) 18 years ago Re: New C melody saxophone coming? Yeah thanks for the info Steve, I always have an interest in the history of things. As to the music, the reason for C mels popularity in the 20s was mainly due to being able to read piano music! Todays up and coming musicians are probably more interested in playing something from boys to men rather than something from 30s jazz that no one's ever heard of because they don't get air time. Though I hope not! Reply To Post by STEVE GOODSON (291 posts) 18 years ago Re: New C melody saxophone coming? I get a request about once every two weeks to bring a C melody to market. From my point of view, the amount of resources you would have to devote to such a project (for our company, anyway) is too high. Our efforts would be better spent elsewhere. I think there are a lot of people who talk about buying a modern C melody, but in reality very few of them would actually write the check. I may be proven wrong, of course, and I wish those behind the project mentioned in this thread well. I just don't believe the market actually exists. Reply To Post by Saxon (100 posts) 17 years ago Re: New C melody saxophone coming? Rather than trying to find a market, I see C melodies as filling a gap in the markets current provision and with the growing population, there seems no reason to suspect they won't be used. New replacement necks both straight and curved should be available next month. Just in time for Christmas! Reply To Post by SelmerParisPassion (59 posts) 17 years ago Re: New C melody saxophone coming? I'd love to hop on the bandwagon- I have a Conn C-Mel, and while it's a beeeautiful horn (s'my favorite as it's not so high as the alto, and not so big/deep as the tenor) having a new model made would make up for the technical, hmm, fallbacks of an older horn. What quality will these be, though? I don't expect grade A professional line, but I really don't want to fork over 800$ for a "monique"-esque sax (you know, those purple & teal 200.00 "novelty" horns) Not trying to be a jerk at all I'm pretty excited about it, but just wondering C.Flowers Reply To Post Yahoo! AIM ICQ by Saxon (100 posts) 17 years ago Re: New C melody saxophone coming? That's the plan! To bring Cs up to modern standard with ergonomic function and High F# I'm confident that these will be the best China has to offer, as my other saxes can attest. And to make sure, I test each one personally and guarantee them to ensure satisfaction. aquilasax.com Reply To Post by Saxon (100 posts) 17 years ago Re: New C melody saxophone coming? I got to test the new C sax prototype last week. The factory are adjusting the key positions to make it more comfortable and will have the second test model ready next month. They expect to begin production in June. Reply To Post by saxonsaxoff (1 post) 17 years ago Re: New C melody saxophone coming? I'm sure this is too early to be discussed, but have you considered having an updated C soprano made? Any updates of the tenor? Reply To Post by Saxon (100 posts) 17 years ago Re: New C melody saxophone coming? A C soprano is on my to do list. The C tenor is now in production. Should see the first for sale in early July Reply To Post by Saxon (100 posts) 17 years ago Re: New C melody saxophone coming? By the by, there's a review with pics and sound samples of an Aquilasax alto done by a guy who wanted to check the quality of the coming C saxes. Go to www.cmelodysax.co.uk/aquilasax/review.htm Reply To Post