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by Kimo (29 posts)
19 years ago
Re: Dark tone on alto
The great Branford Marcalis started as a classical player had has some nice albums out,(pre 1990). He now sticks to New Orleans Jazz.. A super sound.
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by selmer 4evr (309 posts)
19 years ago
Re: Dark tone on alto
I guess the above statment is a joke ,,right???
Brandford a classical player????? has had some nice albums????
Brandford is not and never was a classical player .......and he is not even a pale shadow of his brother ,,
However he is an accurate philosopher ,,,he said ,,,,,''you don't get girls with a clarinet''.
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by selmer 4evr (309 posts)
19 years ago
Re: Dark tone on alto
Why would you want a dark tone with an alto ,,,play tenor ...
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by johnsonfromwisconsin (767 posts)
19 years ago
Re: Dark tone on alto
I've a cd of Branford playing classical. He does well enough.
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Brandford is not and never was a classical player
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eh? are you retarded?
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by selmer 4evr (309 posts)
19 years ago
Re: Dark tone on alto
What cd does brandford play classical on ???? Name one.
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by Cannon (23 posts)
19 years ago
Re: Dark tone on alto
Selmer 4evr,
I actually own one of his CD's. It's called Creation and it has the Orpheus Chamber Orchestra. He does CONCERTINO DA CAMERA, CREATION DU MONDE, SCARAMOUCHE, and others. While Marsalis will always be looked upon as a jazz player by me, he does an adequate job on this cd. I do admit that his tone still contains a little more edge than i like for "legit" playing. When developing my concept of a good classical sound, i'll stick to delangle, murphy, etc. Marsalis can pull off both playing areas though.
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by knorter (205 posts)
19 years ago
Re: Dark tone on alto
Branford has another classical recording in addition to the one just mentioned called Romances For The Saxophone. It was recorded in 1986 with the English Chamber Orchestra and Tallis Chamber Choir.
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by selmer 4evr (309 posts)
19 years ago
Re: Dark tone on alto
Yes Romances was his first I believe .
But I doubt that ''Romances'''' classifies as a classical CD !!! That would be the equivalent of a violinist playing the Anniversary Waltz and calling himself a classical violinist.
No if you investigate well you will find on the romances CD the name of Donald Sinta ( the musical coach that Brandford used to record the CD)
here is my point
If brandford needed Sinta as coach to pull off a ''pot pourri'' recording of
saxophone Muzac-- You nor I have a right to call him a classical saxophonist and thus placing him in a league alongside Delangle and company .
like I said he is a good philosopher:'' you don't get girls with a Clarinet ''
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by johnsonfromwisconsin (767 posts)
19 years ago
Re: Dark tone on alto
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But I doubt that ''Romances'''' classifies as a classical CD !!!
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Except that it does.
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If brandford needed Sinta as coach to pull off a ''pot pourri'' recording of
saxophone Muzac--
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so in effect, he's not playing classical music because he doesnt meet your expectation of playing.
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You nor I have a right to call him a classical saxophonist and thus placing him in a league alongside Delangle and company .
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That's some sort of Fallacy of definition: You don't like Branford as much as Delangle as a classical saxophonist, therefore his playing doesn't qualify as classical.
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by johnsonfromwisconsin (767 posts)
19 years ago
Re: Dark tone on alto
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What cd does brandford play classical on ???? Name one.
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I find it funny that you are apparently in this post in the dark about his recordings in the legit genre, yet below you try to "explain" it into a circular reasoning. Just a hint, it's easier to admit you were mistaken.
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by Seth442 (9 posts)
19 years ago
Re: Dark tone on alto
I made a mistake when listing my jazz setup. I actually play Vandorren V16 reeds, not Javas.
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by johnsonfromwisconsin (767 posts)
19 years ago
Re: Dark tone on alto
I think a lot of people can make the tonal mistake of wanting too much 'darkness' to the point of sounding dull and heavy. I think I was going in that direction until I realized I was looking for depth, and not a lack of overtones. I no longer let myself become mislead by an obsession with being 'dark' without knowing what it really means. I also found out that large tips weren't for me. The smaller tips coax my throat and mouth to open to create volume, making it sound richer that with with something more open.
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(I got put on jury probation for my classical jury, mostly because of my tone)
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what does that mean? did you do poorly enough that they forbade you from doing it again without confiscating your instrument? Hmm.
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by Seth442 (9 posts)
19 years ago
Re: Dark tone on alto
Haha, it means that I didn't play well enough to pass, but they are giving me another chance instead of failing me.
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by Seth442 (9 posts)
19 years ago
Re: Dark tone on alto
By the way, I agree with you. I'm not looking for lack of higher overtones in my sound. I'm looking for a really deep dark core. I do want some bright overtones too to get that edge. I think of Coltrane's tone as a dark core with fiery bright overtones above it.
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by johnsonfromwisconsin (767 posts)
19 years ago
Re: Dark tone on alto
Hi again Seth,
Now that I think of it, I have a suggestion that may help. You keep talking tone in terms of what Jazz players sound like, and from you're first post it sounds like you have a solid Jazz tonal concept. It looks like, however, that your concept of sound as far as what's appropriate in a 'legitimate' setting may be a bit skewed by your jazz influences. What classical saxophone players do you listen to? 'Edge' seems to be something saxophonists are taught to avoid in legit settings, and instead should concentrate on purity and brilliance in their tone.
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by connsaxman_jim (2336 posts)
19 years ago
Re: Dark tone on alto
I'd recommend a Keilwerth SX90R in a new horn, or a Conn New Wonder Series II or 6M, Buescher Aristocrat or 400, H Couf Superba or King Zephyr with an Otto Link Tone Edge mouthpiece for a nice dark tone.
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by Seth442 (9 posts)
19 years ago
Re: Dark tone on alto
Yeah, I don't really have any concept of a classical sound. I don't ever listen to classical saxophonists. I don't even know any. Can you recommend some players with good tones?
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by johnsonfromwisconsin (767 posts)
19 years ago
Re: Dark tone on alto
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Yeah, I don't really have any concept of a classical sound
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That's a problem.
The preeminent classical player is/was Marcel Mule, but recordings of him are rare. Talk to your saxophone proffessor about recordings of suitible players. Other such players that are:
Sigurd Rasher (deceased)
Jame Houlik (tenor)
Anders Paaulson (Soprano)
Eugene Rousseau (various)
Todd Oxford (Bari, sop)
..there's a lot more.
Of interest are saxophone quartets. for instance:
Harvey Pittel Sax Quartet
Sigurd Rascher Quartet
Prism Sax Quartet
etc.
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by phathorn (165 posts)
19 years ago
Re: Dark tone on alto
Others to listen for....
Donald Sinta -Michigan
Tim McCallister- Crane School of Music
Joe Lulloff or Jim Forger- Mich St.
Allen Rippe- Memphis
Grif Campbell- LSU
Props to Johnson for mentioning Paaulson on soprano...never gets mentioned and has one of the best soprano tones in any genre
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by jromain (20 posts)
19 years ago
Re: Dark tone on alto
The notion of developing a classical tonal concept without extensive listening is no less absurd than developing a jazz concept without listening, and so it's great that you're seeking recommendations. I second all above recommendations, and would add:
Claude Delangle-Paris Conservatory, lots of recordings on Bis label
Debra Richtmeyer-Univ. of Illinois-stunningly beautiful tone, check out Saxophone Extravaganza with Czech Radio Orchestra
Susan Fancher-Ponder Nothing on Innova label. Striking sound and thoughtful playing
Also, many Mule recordings have been compiled on a couple of clarinet classics releases, including Le Patron
Finally, if you can find a 3-disc release, Le Saxophone Francaise, you'll find loads of great Mule, Londeix, and some Deffayet Quartet
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by jromain (20 posts)
19 years ago
Re: Dark tone on alto
You seem to have a plenty sophisticated notion of what you're going for in your jazz sound. If you like both Kenny Garrett and Joe Henderson, you could always track down a short-shank Selmer Soloist in facings from D-G or so. As for classical, it's worth thinking about a higher mouthpiece pitch (some will disagree), and a fast/cold/rifle airstream versus a slow/warm/shotgun airstream. Hope it helps.
Jim
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by zootspiker (13 posts)
19 years ago
Re: Dark tone on alto
I posted earlier on this subject with a different string. I originally purchased a Meyer 5M with my Yamaha Alto (YAS 875) Since I double the salesperson recommended the Meyer. About a year ago I switched over to a Phil Barone New York (Also Hard Rubber) M5. For me I find the tone to be richer. Prior to this post I pulled out the Meyer and just ran through a comparison and the Barone holds up with a darker richer tone (same reed) V16 2 1/2. Hope this helps.
Michael Krechevsky
King Silversonic Tenor
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by knorter (205 posts)
19 years ago
Re: Dark tone on alto
If you want a tone like the tenor players that you mention, then transcribe their solos and play along with them. Try to sound just like them by changing different things like your tongue positioning or air direction. It's just like trying to imitate someone's voice. Manipulate your vocal chords and tongue until you come close. Once you have this down keep playing along with records until it becomes the sound in your head and horn. Good luck. Good equipment will help but it won't assure you a great jazz sound.
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