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Forum » General Discussions » Watermelon Man -- changes in one-off bridge? by tenorsaxman11 (20 posts) 19 years ago Watermelon Man -- changes in one-off bridge? Hey all, anybody know what the changes are in watermelon man at this one odd spot-- it's (I think) the 2nd time it seems like going into the bridge (out of the blues progression) but it's really short with changes every two beats. Does anyone know what I'm talking about? Don't really wanna drop $20 on the charts. Thanks. Reply To Post [Report Abuse] Report Abuse Web Address * Your Name Your Email Address Comment
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by barimachine (323 posts) 19 years ago Re: Watermelon Man -- changes in one-off bridge? thats like one of the easiest charts and its every bar not 2 beats if its 2 beats its probably just the turn around Reply To Post by tenorsaxman11 (20 posts) 19 years ago Re: Watermelon Man -- changes in one-off bridge? So it sounds like what you are saying is... you don't know. (please... respond if you DO know) I'm talking about a pseudo-bridge part that only happens once in the song, and yes, it's a change twice per measure for just two measures. Four quick chords that don't occur any other time in the song. Reply To Post by tenorsaxman11 (20 posts) 19 years ago Re: Watermelon Man -- changes in one-off bridge? And yeah, it's a turnaround back into the top of the blues. Reply To Post by barimachine (323 posts) 19 years ago Re: Watermelon Man -- changes in one-off bridge? then the turnaround would be a 3 6 2 5 1 turn around ill try and actually scan the changes into my computer so i dont have to right them Reply To Post by tenorsaxman11 (20 posts) 19 years ago Re: Watermelon Man -- changes in one-off bridge? On futher scrutiny, there are only 3 changes, the 3rd & 4th beats of the second measure are the 3 hits back into the C7 root of the blues structure. I believe the 1st might be a Abm7 That's the thing about herbie tunes. Sure the charts look simple but the devil is in the details if you don't intend to butcher it. Reply To Post by tenorsaxman11 (20 posts) 19 years ago Re: Watermelon Man -- changes in one-off bridge? This is at about 3:15 into the track on the traditional version from headhunters. A scan of the real-deal charts would be great, all I can find the peice of crap cheapo versions. Reply To Post by barimachine (323 posts) 19 years ago Re: Watermelon Man -- changes in one-off bridge? yea thats just his little lead into the break I dont remember it being an actual turn around its just part of the song it had nothing to do with the changes as in no one would actually care about that part like i said its easy its the simplest blocky blues you can get for you assuming you're in Bb as a tenor player it would be \|G7\|G7\|G7\|G7\|C7\|C7\|G7\|G7\| (then into the 5 to 4 for 6 measures) \|D7\|C7\|D7\|C7\|D7\|C7( Reply To Post by tenorsaxman11 (20 posts) 19 years ago Re: Watermelon Man -- changes in one-off bridge? No, that's just the blues part. You're missing the bridge altogether, (hint: it would be in the copyrighted score, but NOT the crappy generic charts) and the part I mean is a short, modal variation on the bridge. Trust me-- if we're talking about the real thing and not the high-school jazz band version, it's alot trickier than you think. Reply To Post by tenorsaxman11 (20 posts) 19 years ago Re: Watermelon Man -- changes in one-off bridge? Anyone who knows what I'm talking about here... please feel free to chime in at any time! Reply To Post by barimachine (323 posts) 19 years ago Re: Watermelon Man -- changes in one-off bridge? watermelon man is not a hard song and i dont play the high school band song its not difficult btw there is not bridge in watermelon man its a standard 16 bar song just one phrase Reply To Post by tenorsaxman11 (20 posts) 19 years ago Re: Watermelon Man -- changes in one-off bridge? Man, thanks for your help, but I need someone who knows the song. There are many versions of it and you're talking about the simple blues portion of it, not the whole thing. Reply To Post by tenorsaxman11 (20 posts) 19 years ago Re: Watermelon Man -- changes in one-off bridge? By the way... I need to finish something I'm working on, but I'll post it on my website in about an hour for you to check out what I'm talking about. Reply To Post by barimachine (323 posts) 19 years ago Re: Watermelon Man -- changes in one-off bridge? wait i think i do remember the version you are talking about but yea MOST of that stuff your getting worked up about is just alot of comp pattern around the same chord the way you play it in a gig setting and solo is going to be the chords i said thats just herbies comp pattern he does in that version the changes of the song remain the same Reply To Post by barimachine (323 posts) 19 years ago Re: Watermelon Man -- changes in one-off bridge? like i said no body plays it that way i mean if they want to they can but everytime ive played that song has been the normal way he wrote it the original like mongo santamaria Reply To Post by tenorsaxman11 (20 posts) 19 years ago Re: Watermelon Man -- changes in one-off bridge? okay thanks then. Anyway, if anyone knows how the real thing goes, please post here! Reply To Post by tenorsaxman11 (20 posts) 19 years ago Re: Watermelon Man -- changes in one-off bridge? by the way, the solo goes over the bridge you are missing in your arrangement. What you are calling a solo (over the 16 bar) is the head, not the solo area. But whatever. Reply To Post by barimachine (323 posts) 19 years ago Re: Watermelon Man -- changes in one-off bridge? btw usually the head has alot to do with the solo area.... just so you know and you still havent explained why you need this Reply To Post by barimachine (323 posts) 19 years ago Re: Watermelon Man -- changes in one-off bridge? that little end pattern he plays i could go try and find out but seeing as how you really dont care i dont think so. but just asking why do you need this are you playing with herbie hancock becasue thats who would play that arangement of his song differently like have you heard him how he makes cantaloupe island more difficult too and maiden voyage but maiden voyage was apparently alot more complex and the bass line was killing but miles took it and told him what is this crap cut out this make it simple Reply To Post by tenorsaxman11 (20 posts) 19 years ago Re: Watermelon Man -- changes in one-off bridge? we don't take shortcuts in my band. Learn the charts to absolute perfection, then adjust it cuz you WANT to, not because you HAVE to. The detail I'm talking about is exactly the type of subtlety that seperates the men from the boys. It's three quick, colorful changes and I want to know the exact changes. Reply To Post by barimachine (323 posts) 19 years ago Re: Watermelon Man -- changes in one-off bridge? its not a colorful quick change god just because he sounds like hes adding that doesnt mean that you play that and if you start transcribing alot of solos from that area especially its hip to not play those and almost nobody does its not a giant chord change modulation like you think its a pattern herbie plays to spice it up alittle not some giant deal like your making it geez they do this all the time and what kind of band are you learning it for thats supposed to be so perfect and rivaling the headhunters in greatness im just saying if you want to play that arrangement thats fine but if you go up to real musicians at a session and say ok lets play watermelon man and you point a finger down and start thats what there gonna play i hope your perfect band knows that Reply To Post by tenorsaxman11 (20 posts) 19 years ago Re: Watermelon Man -- changes in one-off bridge? Jesus dude. Just shut the hell up already. You don't know the song. I've been playing over 25 years, jazz standards, everyone else in my band is a veteran. I'm only asking cuz I hoped someone on here would know off the top of their head, I could have figured it out in the time I spent trying to explain to some highschooler that you don't know the fucking song. Later, I'll check a different board with jazz players on it. Reply To Post by barimachine (323 posts) 19 years ago Re: Watermelon Man -- changes in one-off bridge? im just saying you were pissing me off going nuts on me. i respect that i was just trying to figure out if you were some nubby kid trying to figure it out or if were a real musician now that i know that i can say ok great i cant help you your set on this yea i didnt check to see what forum it was thats why i kept asking btw I know someone who does have this version that had the arrangement but i didnt feel like asking him hahah sorry i could check with him though because i think he has it in finale form. and yes i do know the song but when and if i do play it ive only played this one on a gig once most of the time i used to play the mongo version Reply To Post by martysax (148 posts) 19 years ago Re: Watermelon Man -- changes in one-off bridge? Hey Guys Stop acting like Trumpet players. Sax players get along. Reply To Post by connsaxman_jim (2336 posts) 19 years ago Re: Watermelon Man -- changes in one-off bridge? tenorsaxman, I know the song well, and I have played the song many times, but I'm not exactly sure what part you're talking about either. I have heard several different versions of Watermelon Man. I have the original 1962 version, and a Herbie Hancock version that was done for Bose a few years ago which I actually prefer. I need to look up the cd and listen, but as I recall, they're just half steps. It's a pretty standard jazz progression, or turn around. I'll listen to it and see if I can figure it out and I will post again. Reply To Post Yahoo! by tenorsaxman11 (20 posts) 19 years ago Re: Watermelon Man -- changes in one-off bridge? Nice, thanks Jim. I'm talking about the 1974 version on the Headhunters release. It's personally my favorite arrangement by a long shot. Listen at about 3:15 into it-- I'll post a link to the mp3 tomorrow. Reply To Post by barimachine (323 posts) 19 years ago Re: Watermelon Man -- changes in one-off bridge? yea i have that one too but one that really shows the point your making is a live recording of herbie playing it i dont know when but yea ill post that too because thats the one that i played is based on Reply To Post by knorter (205 posts) 19 years ago Re: Watermelon Man -- changes in one-off bridge? Tenorsaxman 11-- Great arrangement! Two things: the form is extended by 2 beats (16 and 1/2 bars) only during the first head which makes it sound great and less predictable, secondly the chords are different than the other versions. There is no bridge. What you are hearing are extended vamps. The section you are talking about is when the actual melody comes in. So for the most part the 16 bar form is the same: This is where it gets different F7/ F7/ F7/ F7/ Bb7/ Bb7/ F7/ F7/ C7/ Bb7/ C7/ Bb7/ C7/ Bb7/ Ab pedal in the bass and it sounds like Ab7 for 2 beats, Gb7 over Ab for 2 beats back to Ab7 for 2 beats. The Gb over Ab I'm struggling to hear the exact voicing without a keyboard in front of me sorry--but definitely an Ab in the bass throughout. The last three chords are a half step movement down (tritone subs) Ab7, G7, Gb7 -which is held for an extra 2 beats and then resolves back to the F7. The second time through the head. everything is the same except when they go to the first Ab7 chord--they stay on it as a vamp for awhile. Vamping Ab7/ Gb7 for a few bars before doing the tritone turnaround again back to the F7. It is very common for more advanced rhythm sections to do that type of turnaround instead of just iii-VI-ii-V. Maybe not extending the form by 2 beats with people that you haven't rehearsed with but the end of the progression is fine in a jamming situation. Your group could make that figure a cue for your performances and play solos on extended vamps. It is always a good idea to learn as many variables to a tune as possible. I think it's great that your group is taking the time to figure out polished arrangements. You're right that is the difference between less experienced and more experienced players. I think Herbie was trying to make an arrangement that explores the whole step relationship between the V7 and IV7 chords. He just keeps going down another whole step to bIII7 and bII7. Good luck--if I get to a keyboard I'll try to get the exact voicing on beats 3 and 4 in measure 15. Kristy Reply To Post Yahoo! AIM ICQ by tenorsaxman11 (20 posts) 19 years ago Re: Watermelon Man -- changes in one-off bridge? "pedal in the bass and it sounds like Ab7 for 2 beats, Gb7 over Ab for 2 beats back to Ab7 for 2 beats." This is definitely the part I'm talking about. It seems to me there are more augmentations to the triad, but that sounds pretty good for the basic structure. If you do end up behind some keys I would love to hear what more details you hear in it. Herbie is vamping some very rich color over that basic structure. Thanks a ton Kristy! Here's a link to the mp3: www.colonelburns.com/media You probably have to right-click and "save as" on watermelon man. Again, this change is at 3:15 or so. Reply To Post by connsaxman_jim (2336 posts) 19 years ago Re: Watermelon Man -- changes in one-off bridge? Kristy.....YOU'RE AWESOME! I'd love to hear you play sometime! Jim Reply To Post Yahoo! by knorter (205 posts) 19 years ago Re: Watermelon Man -- changes in one-off bridge? Thanks Jim, If I knew more about MP3 files I could put up a link. I am on the last 2 Diva CD's "I Believe In You", and their "Live" (the better of the 2) recorded at the Manchester Craftsman Guild a few years ago. Who knows maybe we'll share a stage someday. It is a small world. Reply To Post Yahoo! AIM ICQ by barimachine (323 posts) 19 years ago Re: Watermelon Man -- changes in one-off bridge? you can put that stuff up on www.yousendit.com just leave the email blank or whatever and it will give you a link for public download but its limited Reply To Post by barimachine (323 posts) 19 years ago Re: Watermelon Man -- changes in one-off bridge? yea that part sounded something like that to me, personally i suck at figuring out voicings but i think it sounds alot like what he plays on maiden voyage yea with the slash down the half step sus chord or whatever Reply To Post by saxjunkie89 (393 posts) 19 years ago Re: Watermelon Man -- changes in one-off bridge? good one martysax Reply To Post