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Forum » Sax Equipment » Yahama vs. Conn by djazzy (65 posts) 18 years ago Yahama vs. Conn I play a school owned Yamaha Tenor Saxophone and it is easier to play low notes and easier to play in tune than the Conn Tenor sax (my horn).My setup is the same on both horns. What is the difference? Is Yahama a better brand than Conn? Reply To Post [Report Abuse] Report Abuse Web Address * Your Name Your Email Address Comment
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by Stiles B (101 posts) 18 years ago Re: Yahama vs. Conn It's always interesting to read other people's opinions on which horn/mpce/set-up/style of music etc. is better. I offer my experience in regards to the alto I play which is a Yamaha 52. My parents bought it for me when I was a senior in high school some (muffle garble) years ago. I worked for 8 yrs as a sax repairman and got a chance to play a LOT of horns and my Yamaha felt so good and natural and to this day still is as dark or bright as I need. I use the same set-up, with occasional forays into reed hell, that I have used for 18+ years. My first alto was a Conn student and it was a tank, but that was a good thing as beginners have a tendency to "neglect" their instruments. Reply To Post by connsaxman_jim (2336 posts) 18 years ago Re: Yahama vs. Conn Is Yamaha a better brand than Conn? Well, that depends. The older Conn saxophones are great horns. Some of their newer horns are not nearly as good. Yamaha makes a great sax. They can really take a beating and still play fairly well. They have very good intonation, and they sound great. If your Conn is in need of some pads and adjustments, that could be part of the problem. No horn, no matter how good, will play properly if some of the pads are leaking and the keys out of adjustment. Older Conn saxophones are somewhat tempermental also. They play and sound great with the right set-up, but what works and sounds great on a newer Yamaha may not work on a Conn. They like mouthpieces with large, open chambers. A Selmer S-80 C* is not going to work very well on a Conn sax. It will make the sax play out of tune. Depending on when and where you Conn saxophone was made, it might be a very good horn in need of a little repair. Could you tell us a little more about it? What is the engraving? Does it have shooting stars on the bell? Any patent date? What is the serial number? Jim Reply To Post Yahoo! by barisax999 (400 posts) 18 years ago Re: Yahama vs. Conn when dealing with 2 companies that are good like conn and yamaha, you cannot say one is better than the other, its a preference thing. but in order to judge it, we would need more info. on both horns including age and condition. personally, if its an older conn, the sound will be much better, but the intonation wont be nearly as good, and i despise the keywork(personal opinion). however, if it a newr conn, i would sell it for scrap metal. there really isnt a bad yamaha. the 23 is their student model and is the best on the market. but their pro horns may be very good, but i never felt that they have a lot of "soul" if you can get what im saying. they (as well as almost all new horns) just dont feel right and down have the emotion that vintage horns do. again, thats my opnion. Reply To Post Yahoo! AIM by djazzy (65 posts) 18 years ago Re: Yahama vs. Conn I using a Yahama YTS-52 . The serial number is 018208A. My Conn is very old although I don't have the horn at home (it's in the shop). I can post when the horn is back at home. Reply To Post by connsaxman_jim (2336 posts) 18 years ago Re: Yahama vs. Conn Conn was the first company to make saxophones in the United States. The company was started by Charles Gerrard Conn in the 1870's. Mr. Conn was a cornet player. Originally, he invented a type of Cornet mouthpiece with a rubber cushion that made it easier to play. The company began in Elkhart Indiana, and Mr Conn became elected to the US Senate a few years later, representing Indiana. In 1915, he sold the company to Carl Dimond Greenleaf. Under the ownership of Greenleaf, Conn became the largest manufacturer of wind instruments in the United States. Other companies also got their start in the Elkhart area thanks partly to Conn; such as Buescher, Martin, Brillhart, J.J. Babbit and many others. (Brillhart and Babbit both made mouthpieces) Mr. Greenleaf retired from the company in 1949. In 1959, his grandson Leland took over. By 1959, the Conn company had suffered some heavy blows from the Selmer company, who had taken over a large percentage of Conn stock and bought out some of their suppliers; raising prices and so on. Leland thought that the Conn company should pursue other avenues. Conn began making organs, guitars, and there were plans to even start a piano factory. They also purchased the Ludwig drum company. Unfortunately, Leland didn't have the best business sense, and ten years later, the company was on the verge of bankrupsy. Buescher, had already filed for bankrupsy, and was purchased by Selmer. Fearing the same fate, Leland sold the Conn company to MacMillan, a publishing company in 1969. MacMillan quickly moved production from Indiana to Nogales, Arizona not to far from the Mexico border. By the mid-1970's MacMillan had moved production into Mexico. There were no more "professional" model Conns. In fact. the Conn horns made in Mexico are only slightly better than those Chinese horns that you see on Ebay for under $300.00. Today, Conn/Selmer is the largest musical instrument company in the world. They own and distribute several other brands, including Conn, Buescher, King, Armstrong, Gemeinhart, Brillhart, Bach, Yanagisawa, LeBlanc, and many others along with the Selmer brand. Yamaha is an old Japanese company. They are one of Japan's largest. They manufacture everything from motorcycles and snowmobiles to musical instruments and stereo equipment. Yamaha is one of the companies that was highly influences by Demming after WWII. They are highly committed to Total Quality Management. They build a good product, and they do so at an affordable cost. They make a great saxophone. They have a good action, and one of the best intonations of any sax. If I were to buy a new horn, I would most definately consider buying a Yamaha. I suppose the one thing that Yamaha is lacking is some of the history and prestigue. That's why I love vintage horns! Jim Reply To Post Yahoo! by chiamac (586 posts) 18 years ago Re: Yahama vs. Conn Gotta love Demming! =) but that's an intresting thing about Yamaha... they really don't do anything half ss. They make good products all around, and "it seems" really get into their products. "Yamaha is an old Japanese company. They are one of Japan's largest. They manufacture everything from motorcycles and snowmobiles to musical instruments and stereo equipment. Yamaha is one of the companies that was highly influences by Demming after WWII. They are highly committed to Total Quality Management. They build a good product, and they do so at an affordable cost. They make a great saxophone. They have a good action, and one of the best intonations of any sax. If I were to buy a new horn, I would most definately consider buying a Yamaha. I suppose the one thing that Yamaha is lacking is some of the history and prestigue. That's why I love vintage horns! " Reply To Post Yahoo! AIM by connsaxman_jim (2336 posts) 18 years ago Re: Yahama vs. Conn Conn was the first company to make saxophones in the United States. The company was started by Charles Gerrard Conn in the 1870's. Mr. Conn was a cornet player. Originally, he invented a type of Cornet mouthpiece with a rubber cushion that made it easier to play. The company began in Elkhart Indiana, and Mr Conn became elected to the US Senate a few years later, representing Indiana. In 1915, he sold the company to Carl Dimond Greenleaf. Under the ownership of Greenleaf, Conn became the largest manufacturer of wind instruments in the United States. Other companies also got their start in the Elkhart area thanks partly to Conn; such as Buescher, Martin, Brillhart, J.J. Babbit and many others. (Brillhart and Babbit both made mouthpieces) Mr. Greenleaf retired from the company in 1949. In 1959, his grandson Leland took over. By 1959, the Conn company had suffered some heavy blows from the Selmer company, who had taken over a large percentage of Conn stock and bought out some of their suppliers; raising prices and so on. Leland thought that the Conn company should pursue other avenues. Conn began making organs, guitars, and there were plans to even start a piano factory. They also purchased the Ludwig drum company. Unfortunately, Leland didn't have the best business sense, and ten years later, the company was on the verge of bankrupsy. Buescher, had already filed for bankrupsy, and was purchased by Selmer. Fearing the same fate, Leland sold the Conn company to MacMillan, a publishing company in 1969. MacMillan quickly moved production from Indiana to Nogales, Arizona not to far from the Mexico border. By the mid-1970's MacMillan had moved production into Mexico. There were no more "professional" model Conns. In fact. the Conn horns made in Mexico are only slightly better than those Chinese horns that you see on Ebay for under $300.00. Today, Conn/Selmer is the largest musical instrument company in the world. They own and distribute several other brands, including Conn, Buescher, King, Armstrong, Gemeinhart, Brillhart, Bach, Yanagisawa, LeBlanc, and many others along with the Selmer brand. Yamaha is an old Japanese company. They are one of Japan's largest. They manufacture everything from motorcycles and snowmobiles to musical instruments and stereo equipment. Yamaha is one of the companies that was highly influences by Demming after WWII. They are highly committed to Total Quality Management. They build a good product, and they do so at an affordable cost. They make a great saxophone. They have a good action, and one of the best intonations of any sax. If I were to buy a new horn, I would most definately consider buying a Yamaha. I suppose the one thing that Yamaha is lacking is some of the history and prestigue. That's why I love vintage horns! Jim Reply To Post Yahoo! by djazzy (65 posts) 18 years ago Re: Yahama vs. Conn Thanks for the history. So is Yahama a better horn than Conn? I'd like to use my Yahama or Conn for jazz settings. Which company would be better for this? Reply To Post by Dave Dix (421 posts) 18 years ago Re: Yahama vs. Conn Simple, just get a buescher aristocrat series 1, bigB or 156 Dave Reply To Post by djazzy (65 posts) 18 years ago Re: Yahama vs. Conn So are saying I should get a Buescher Aristocrat Series 1, Buescher Big B, or Buescher 156? Reply To Post by Dave Dix (421 posts) 18 years ago Re: Yahama vs. Conn Yams are superb horns with great ergo,s and intonation but , to me , too bright and bland , 10m's are superb also, i own one and many more earlier conns lie chu's etc but like an animal, once mastered are unbelievable horns thats why many pro players still use them today, bueschers i mentioned have superb ergo's and intonation wih a great mid tone i find far better then the yams and soooo easy to play and control and with norton gold plated springs have a wonderful feel to them. his is my own opinion some one else may chime in and shoot me down (i own 5 bueschers and will never sell) but i stand by my opinion Dave Reply To Post by djazzy (65 posts) 18 years ago Re: Yahama vs. Conn So are you recomending I shoud look at a Buescher tenor sax. Reply To Post by Dave Dix (421 posts) 18 years ago Re: Yahama vs. Conn I highly recommend trying one along with a THE MARTIN but finding one in a shop or locally may be difficult Dave Reply To Post by djazzy (65 posts) 18 years ago Re: Yahama vs. Conn I live in Indianapolis, Indiana. Do you know of any music stores in the area? Reply To Post by saxjunkie89 (393 posts) 18 years ago Re: Yahama vs. Conn question for connsaxmanjim: did you read "The Devil's Horn" by Michael Segell, because your very long thing about Conn sounds just like a passage in that book on the history of C.G. Conn. Just wondering... Reply To Post by connsaxman_jim (2336 posts) 18 years ago Re: Yahama vs. Conn There are a few really good books about Conn, and some great websites too. If you do a search (Google or Yahoo) on Conn History, there are many interesting sites worth checking out. One of my favorites is by Dr. Margaret Downey Banks, www.usd.edu/~mbanks/CONTENT.html Being a Conn enthusiast, I try to learn as much about the company as I can. Jim Reply To Post Yahoo! by barisax999 (400 posts) 18 years ago Re: Yahama vs. Conn i would say stick with the conn, if your only in jazz. if you play legit stuff, then go with the yamaha. you dont need another horn, you have two of the greatest horns (assuming the conn is from the right year, make sure to check the serials when you get it back). there is no need to be looking into a different horn Reply To Post Yahoo! AIM by connsaxman_jim (2336 posts) 18 years ago Re: Yahama vs. Conn Wait a minute here. Before jumping in and telling him what kind of horn to buy, we need to know more about the Conn saxophone that he has. If it's a newer student model or one of the Director's horns from the 70's, he might want to think about replacing it, but maybe this is a really good horn that just needs a tune up and some new pads. What can you tell us about your Conn horn? As for Yamaha being better than Conn, they are both great companies. Conn made some of the finest horns of all time, but they also made a lot of junk in their later years after the company was sold. Of the new horns, I feel that the Yamaha saxophones are much better than the new Conn saxophones. But, I would take an old Conn 6M alto or 10M tenor from the 30's-50's over just about any other horn out there! Reply To Post Yahoo! by djazzy (65 posts) 18 years ago Re: Yahama vs. Conn The serial no. for my Conn tenor sax is 345977 and the letter is L. Reply To Post by barisax999 (400 posts) 18 years ago Re: Yahama vs. Conn looked into it, and i dont know conns too well, but it could be a good horn. this was made before the plant was moved to mexico and the horns went downhill. however they did discontinue the rolled toneholes which makes it less desrieable in my book. and overall, this was a later horn, and i dont like them nearly as much (and i dont like conns much in general, personal opnion). Reply To Post Yahoo! AIM by Dave Dix (421 posts) 18 years ago Re: Yahama vs. Conn Its built in 1952 (RTH discontinued in 1948) but still a good time for conn horns Dave Reply To Post by definition (963 posts) 18 years ago Re: Yahama vs. Conn the rolled tone holes IMO are better if you're a collector. as a player, I mostly prefer the straight tone holes. easier to keep in adjustment and I think they have a cleaner articulation Reply To Post Yahoo! AIM by Sax Mom (964 posts) 18 years ago Re: Yahama vs. Conn I'd hold onto that Conn, being a pre 1970. My daughter's Conn from 1970-somthing is about to be traded in on something better, possibly a Yamaha. She doesn't care for the keywork on my beautiful 6m. But that's okay, then I get to play my 6m whenever I want, since she doesn't take it to school. I have a Conn Tenor from the 60's, student model, but it plays great (with a unique adjustment). I don't plan to trade it for anything. Reply To Post by djazzy (65 posts) 18 years ago Re: Yahama vs. Conn WHAT SHOULD I DO? Do I sell my Conn or just make adjustments? Reply To Post by barisax999 (400 posts) 18 years ago Re: Yahama vs. Conn personally i would ditch the conn and move to either an older conn, since it seems like you like them, or some other better horn. but none of us can really say. we dont know whats wrong with the horn and what not. take it to a tech and see what they say about value and cost of repairs Reply To Post Yahoo! AIM by saxjunkie89 (393 posts) 18 years ago Re: Yahama vs. Conn okay, here's a good argument piece, the Yamaha YAS-23 or the C. G. Conn 24MHF altos. I've played both, and the one that suits me best is the Conn. Played side by side, same setup and all, the Conn outplayed the Yamaha by far (Yamaha claims they have the best student alto out there). Yamaha's intermediate and pro saxes are good, though, i.e. Custom Z (I've played one and it is simply amazing!) Reply To Post by connsaxman_jim (2336 posts) 18 years ago Re: Yahama vs. Conn Unfortunately you're getting a lot of advice here from people who have no idea what they're talking about! You have a very good Conn! Much better than any Yamaha. It's a 1952 model, which means that it's either a 6M or a 28M Connstellation. The Connstellations are VERY rare, and I would be very surprised if that's what it was! They are noted as being the BEST alto saxophone ever made!!! My guess is that it is a 6M. Does it have the octave key mounted on the bottom of the neck? Does it have a topless lady engraved in a pentagon on the bell? If so, it's a 6M. The 6M is a very popular PRO model vintage horn! They're a better horn than ANY Yamaha!!! Maybe yours needs some repair; pads and adjustments perhaps. Spend the money to have it repaired and hang onto it! Don't let these idiots who have no idea what it's worth talk you into selling it or trading it! Reply To Post Yahoo! by connsaxman_jim (2336 posts) 18 years ago Re: Yahama vs. Conn Sorry, Dave Dix and Definition DO know what they're talking about, and Sax Mom is learning! :) She can tell you how good a Conn 6M is! Before telling you to ditch your horn, I wanted to find out a little more about it and the serial number you gave me told me most of what I needed to know. KEEP YOUR HORN!!! Reply To Post Yahoo! by blackfrancis (396 posts) 18 years ago Re: Yahama vs. Conn Keep the Conn. Find a tech that really knows vintage horns and get it fixed up. Seriously, you will not regret it. The "ergonomics issue" is truly a tempest in a teapot- lots of pros play the livin' dog s*t out of those old horns. Reply To Post by chiamac (586 posts) 18 years ago Re: Yahama vs. Conn you know, I had this all typed out, then it didn't go though! grrrrr as far as the horns, and a lot of the time I'm one of the people who dosen't know much... You would be taking two steps back by replacing that Conn with something other than a pro horn. A few things to consider, and Jim may be able to back me up. Old Conns are fantastic, however they are very picky as to which mouthpieces they work well with. You may want to look at getting a different piece if it's not sounding good. that and get the thing checked out! It's worth getting the conn fixed up rather than dumping it and spending more money for a different horn. as far as ergonomics, did we all forget about the bop era? Reply To Post Yahoo! AIM by Dave Dix (421 posts) 18 years ago Re: Yahama vs. Conn Thanks Jim, its a conn 10m and a damn fine horn, i have a 1949 model and they are built like tanks and can take a lot of punishment. Also a superb tone which i find yamaha's are very bland in comparrison, get the darn thing fixed and then play it and if you dont like it you can easily sell it and guarantee its in good playing order. The ergo's are not as good as a yam but 30 minites of playing it will soon sort that issue out Dave Reply To Post by definition (963 posts) 18 years ago Re: Yahama vs. Conn Yeah, a bit of playing will hammer 'weird' ergonomics. I play a Buescher 400 TH&C tenor for most of my playing, but I do have a 48 10M, and it beats the pants off of many other horns Reply To Post Yahoo! AIM by djazzy (65 posts) 18 years ago Re: Yahama vs. Conn I didn't think my Conn had a bad sound or even needed to be fixed. I noticed that the Yahama was easier to play. So I should get my Conn repaired. But to what specifications, what should I tell the tech to repair? Reply To Post by Dave Dix (421 posts) 18 years ago Re: Yahama vs. Conn I'm a bit stuck on playing my series 1 buescher aristocrat at the moment on my gigs but i do often take along my chu, or 10m or the martin for a change.Different ergo's dont bother me much at all (i have been gigging way over 30 years) and i think its quite funny when people complain about the 'weird keywork' on vintage horns Thats why we've evolved one up from a monkey (or 2 from a drummer) because we can adapt!!! Dave Reply To Post by definition (963 posts) 18 years ago Re: Yahama vs. Conn have it repaired so that it speaks easily in all registers and the keys move freely and there are no leaks Reply To Post Yahoo! AIM by djazzy (65 posts) 18 years ago Re: Yahama vs. Conn Thanks for your help everyone. I'll get my horn taken to a tech to get fixed. Reply To Post by connsaxman_jim (2336 posts) 18 years ago Re: Yahama vs. Conn Thanks Dave, Definition, and Chiamac. I was a little tired the last time I read this post, and I was thinking alto and not tenor. But, Dave is correct. It's a 10M. The 6M was the alto, and the 28M Connstellation I was telling you about was only available in an alto, so the mystery is solved! I play a 1948 10M. It's a fantastic horn with an amazing sound that will raise a few hairs! I wouldn't trade mine for 100 new Yamahas or Selmers!!! There are a few things though that you need to consider with a 10M, and I think Chiamac started to mention a couple of them: The intonation on the later models is really pretty good, BUT, you need a mouthpiece with a fairly long shank and most importantly, an open chamber. Certain mouthpieces are not going to play very well on this horn! I DO NOT recommend using a Selmer mouthpiece with any Conn. They are very different by design and the smaller chamber mouthpiece will make your Conn play sharp. A Jody Jazz ESP metal is one of the best for a Conn 10M. I spoke with Jody, who also plays a Conn 10M, and designed the ESP specifically with the 10M in mind. The Otto Link Super Tone Master mouthpiece is also a great metal piece for the 10M. If you prefer a hard rubber piece, the Otto Link Tone Edge is very good. Also the Meyer G Series and 5M Ebonite mouthpieces are very good. Keep a small bottle of trombone slide oil in your case, and lubricate your pivot points from time to time just to keep your action free. I recommend doing this with any horn, but especially the Conns with the tiny set screws. If you should decide to get the sax repadded, use Conn Res-O-Pads or a similar metal resonator pad that is the same thickness. The Selmer style plastic dome resonator pads don't seem to work out as well on the 10M. I suspect that the Selmer style pads may have been at least part of the cause of some intonation problems I've seen recently with a Conn 10M. Keep your horn in a good case. The 10M's of that vintage are built very well except for the brace that connects the bell to the body of the horn. The rather thin brace tends to break fairly easy. An SKB, Walt Johnson, or a Gator case (aside from the original Conn case) would be the way to go. I don't recommend a soft case. Reply To Post Yahoo! by djazzy (65 posts) 18 years ago Re: Yahama vs. Conn I'm currently using a Masteller mouthpiece on my horn. Masteller is a company from Battle Creek, Michigan. Anyway I'm glad I didn't act quickly and sell my Conn! That would be a huge mistake. I had a good gig case for my Conn but it was recently stolen by on of our schools band members. I hope to get a protec gig case (in a year) if I can afford it. I know I need a new mouthpiece (the Masteller doesn't work well on my Conn), but I don't have a clue on what I should be looking for. What mouthpiece brands have long shanks and open chambers? I haven't ever played a metal mouthpiece before what do they sound like? If I decide to get my horn repadded what significance does it have on the sound? Sorry for all the questions but I don't have much experience in mouthpieces. Every decision I've made has been controlled by my band director. He advised me to buy the horn in the first place. He told me $300 was a great price for the Conn 10M. Reply To Post by CountSpatula (602 posts) 18 years ago Re: Yahama vs. Conn Metal mouthpieces tend to be brighter than plastic, but they can be dark for classical type music, just depends what kind of mouthpiece (i.e. Dukoff=Brightest thing on the planet, Selmer Metal=dark) Metal mouthpieces wont play too easily unless you build up your embrochur, or else you'll squeek or it will be too hard to control. If your going to ask for what type of mouthpiece you want, can you give details on what you want it to sound like? (i.e. dark, bright, edgy, loud). What your looking for depends on what type of music your playing, concert would be something preferably quiet and dark, big-band preferably loud either dark or a bit of brightness, or soloist jazz which is whatever you want. I'm not sure about the pads. I had 1 replaced and it didnt make much of a difference. Reply To Post AIM by chiamac (586 posts) 18 years ago Re: Yahama vs. Conn well first off djazzy, have you seen the movie "Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back?" Pay close attention to the ending, since that's what would happen to you, by us, if you sold that horn. =) $300 would be a steal on ANY "good" sax, let alone a 10M. I got mine for $800 and thought that was a steal. I'll disagree with Jim about mouthpieces. I did use a selmer though high school and it seemed to work fine. However, I wasn't into classical that much, so I really just wanted something that would make noise - which the selmer did. I would really check out the Link NY's for a metal piece. My link works great on the conn, (I just used regular hard vandoren blue box reeds too) I forgot about this piece of info as well... the person who sold me my horn was VERY close to shipping it over to Europe so some collector could have it. He also siad it sounds and plays like a new selmer series 3 tenor. (or very close) and my alto (6M) was almost sold to someone down in St Louis so he could use it as a pro horn. These are very good horns, and will put up a good fight to the new models out there from any company. blah, I guess I can't type or think when I'm hungover! I'll get back to this later! =) Reply To Post Yahoo! AIM by connsaxman_jim (2336 posts) 18 years ago Re: Yahama vs. Conn Metal mouthpieces offer better projection and sustain than hard rubber, plastic, or ebonite mouthpieces. Metal mouthpieces are quite different by design, and they have a different feel than hard rubber. Sometimes, as CountSpatula said, they take some getting use to. Many metal mouthpieces are more open at the tip also, so you need a tighter embrochure and more air. I have to disagree with you about the Dukoffs being the brightest on the planet. They are bright. I use a vintage Hollywood from time to time. The Beechler Bellite and Runyan Jaguar or Quantum would have to rate right up there with the brightest of the bunch. The Otto Link New York would be a good choice for a Conn 10M. I use a vintage Florida on my 10M. I also have a Jody Jazz ESP which I have been using more often. A Meyer G Series mouthpiece would be a great choice for a 10M. They have a nice big chamber. The Tone Edge mouthpieces are great. I definately would not use a Selmer S-80. They will through your intonation off, as will most Selmer mouthpieces. Chiamac, you may have gotten lucky with your particular Selmer mouthpiece, but as a rule, they have smaller chambers and I would be VERY careful buying a Selmer mouthpiece to use on a Conn. Just make sure that you can return it for something else if it doesn't work. Reply To Post Yahoo! by chiamac (586 posts) 18 years ago Re: Yahama vs. Conn yeah, however, I got mine for free some where down the line! =) Reply To Post Yahoo! AIM by djazzy (65 posts) 18 years ago Re: Yahama vs. Conn I'd like a good jazz mouthpiece. I'd like to have a bright sound to help me solos play out more but I don't want a really loud cutting sound. Is this clear enough? Reply To Post by connsaxman_jim (2336 posts) 18 years ago Re: Yahama vs. Conn Djazzy, try one of these. I think this is the sound that you are looking for. www.giardinelli.com/product/Woodwinds/Accessories?sku=462458 This is very similar to the mouthpiece that I use on my 10M. Reply To Post Yahoo! by connsaxman_jim (2336 posts) 18 years ago Re: Yahama vs. Conn That is a GREAT price too! I don't think you'll find one any cheaper. Reply To Post Yahoo! by djazzy (65 posts) 18 years ago Re: Yahama vs. Conn Thanks. Is there any way I could test it before I buy? I don't want a piece with to big a tip opening or anything else. Reply To Post by djazzy (65 posts) 18 years ago Re: Yahama vs. Conn I found a tip opening chart but the brand I use isn't common. What should I do next? Reply To Post