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Forum » Sax Equipment » Confused about tip opening by SQ1 (13 posts) 18 years ago Confused about tip opening I've been lurking for a short time, reading the wisdom collected here and thinking about a new mouthpiece. I'm not quite a beginner, but I've been playing long enough to wonder what difference it would make to replace the standard 4C mpc (opening .067", I believe) on my YTS-23. I should say that I'm going to have to buy mail-order. So I read the advice of those smarter than me and I settle on something like an opening of maybe .090, .095 - nowt too radical, but enough of a jump to stretch me. I'm used to 3.5 reeds. Then I see Vandoren's description of their Jumbo Java T97 mpc (opening 3.4 of our modern European millimetres ie .134") is "lots of sound, light reeds recommended. Ideal for beginners." Now I see that anything with a light reed will be better for beginners, but that big an opening? I could drive my car into that. I want to stick with reeds no softer than 3, but should I be considering more of a jump - say, to .105"? Thanks for any advice. Reply To Post [Report Abuse] Report Abuse Web Address * Your Name Your Email Address Comment
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by MarkLavelle (300 posts) 18 years ago Re: Confused about tip opening I'm a not-quite-beginner, too, and started with a Yamaha 5C (because I broke my 4C right away!). I don't know what the folks at Vandoren have been smoking, but IMO there is NO WAY you can comfortably go from a Yamaha 4C straight to a Vandoren T97. I bought a Jumbo Java T55 based on their description and what I read here and a few other places. It's taken me a while to get it 'under control', but I consider the change (from the 5C) managable (but just barely). Then I got myself a regular Java T45. I find it totally manageable, AND I like the tone a whole lot better. The Jumbo Java is super bright compared to the Java. FYI, I use mostly 2.5 Vandoren or Rico reeds, but have experimented on all my mouthpieces with 2s and 3s. Current favorite is Java 2.5. Reply To Post by SQ1 (13 posts) 18 years ago Re: Confused about tip opening Mark, that's very helpful. I had been heading towards a T45 opening myself, but I get confused easily. Thanks. Reply To Post by CountSpatula (602 posts) 18 years ago Re: Confused about tip opening SQ1, Thinner reeds does not mean your a beginner. Theyre used on bigger tip openings making it easier to play. For example, My concert mouthpiece on alto is a .067, with 3 1/2 java reeds My jazz mouthpiece is a .085 opening, with 2 1/2 java reeds. So if you were to go to the vandoren mouthpiece you should try a 3 reed. If you wanted to be sure of yourself, go to a music store and try out the mouthpieces there. Reply To Post AIM by SQ1 (13 posts) 18 years ago Re: Confused about tip opening "Thinner reeds does not mean your a beginner" Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that. I'm all for ease of play - my embouchure is still forming - but I was taking an analogy with guitar strings: heavier strings generally means better tone, so if you get your fingers used to heavier strings, it's a retrograde step to change to lighter. Is that not so for reeds? Or would I be better to drop a little at first until I get used to the new mouthpiece? Reply To Post by CountSpatula (602 posts) 18 years ago Re: Confused about tip opening Its up to you. I would drop down a reed and find which size works best Reply To Post AIM by MarkLavelle (300 posts) 18 years ago Re: Confused about tip opening No advice from me, but as a long-time guitar player, I don't think the strings / reeds thickness analogy really works. Guitar strings actually produce the core tone of the instrument - the rest of the guitar just shapes and amplifies that tone. The core tone of a sax comes from the shape of the column of air and the materials that contain that column (includng the player's body). A sax reed is mostly just a valve, and the important characteristics are that it be able to (a) make a 'perfect' seal when closed; (b) vibrate in a regular fashion over a sufficient frequency range; and (c) change frequencies instantly. It's true that the reed forms a portion of the 'container' for your column of air, but only a very short piece, which makes me think that the influence on the tone from changing reed thickness would be quite limited... Enough of my theorizing - what do all you more experienced folks have to say? Reply To Post by CountSpatula (602 posts) 18 years ago Re: Confused about tip opening Well a harder reed would be similar to a more open tip opening. A wider tip opening tends to be a bit brighter...I do notice that a 2.5 reed on my dukoff is sort of bright and a bit of edge and a 3 reed is 10x louder, way brighter and edgy. Reply To Post AIM by selmer 4evr (309 posts) 18 years ago Re: Confused about tip opening I am not sure that I am in total agreement with what has been posted thus far Usually a larger opening requires a harder reed since a soft reed doing that much more work would cause it to not last . a closed opening will better handle a softer reed and give decent results that is why most players with good chops will balance their choice by employing a combination of harder and more open. Any visit to Vandoren site for recommended reed strength to mouthpiece opening will reveal this truth. As for sound ,,classiscal players prefer mid closed opening with med soft reed 21/2 or so with C* or so since they are looking for flexibility of sound Jazz players will choose more open with harder reeds since they are not looking for as round a sound or centered Reply To Post by blackfrancis (396 posts) 18 years ago Re: Confused about tip opening A larger tip opening needs a softer reed to accomodate it. A visit to the Vandoren site will result in nice graphics and lots of promo. I play a 120 tip w/ Jazz select 2Ms. I could go to 2H. Too hard of a reed will generally give the inexperienced player bad results, e.g. biting, blowing too hard, no dynamic range, poor intonation- you'll have less control. You will also tire easily. I'd say step up to no more than a 100 tip and try some reeds in the 2 1/2 to 3 range. Your mileage may vary. Reply To Post by SQ1 (13 posts) 18 years ago Re: Confused about tip opening "Biting, blowing too hard, no dynamic range, poor intonation" - you've heard me play, then, bf? You all jus wait. I gots me a noo piece, from Dorset Driftwood - Berg Larsen .95 from de 60s - things goin to change yeh Reply To Post by blackfrancis (396 posts) 18 years ago Re: Confused about tip opening No, just been there. Congrats on the Berg- a good one is truly a reason to smile! What chamber and facing? Reply To Post by SQ1 (13 posts) 18 years ago Re: Confused about tip opening Well, when I say I've got it, it's on its way. Reply To Post by SQ1 (13 posts) 18 years ago Re: Confused about tip opening 95-2-SMS. So I won't need my phone any more, obviously. Reply To Post by CountSpatula (602 posts) 18 years ago Re: Confused about tip opening Errr no? I have a Selmer C* Mouthpiece, a 3.5 vandoren reed works perfectly on it, meanwhile a Lavoz med h is equal to a 2.5 vandoren reed and its near impossible to play on it. I also have a beechler with a tip opening of .085. A 3.5 reed is so hard that you get an airy sound and you have to bite down hard or blow extremely hard to get a note out. Meanwhile a 2.5 reed makes it play as easily as my selmer mouthpiece. Lots of jazz players look for a round or centered sound. Reply To Post AIM